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ai6276
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 15, 2004 09:58
I THINK BOTH MIRANDA OTTO AND LIV TYLER ARE STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL WOMAN, BUT I PERSONALLY THINK THAT LIV TYLER IS ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.....NOW AS TO HOW SHE CAME TO BE SO UN-BELIEVABLY BEAUTIFUL FROM SOMEONE AS RAGGED AND WORN AS STEVE TYLER, I WILL NEVER KNOW!!! LOLOLOL.......BUT NONE THE LESS, LIV HAS MY VOTE!
Arwen
40% (5)
Eowyn
60% (8)
ai6276
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 15, 2004 10:01
AND I FORGOT TO ADD........

WHAT 'Aorelind' SAID ON THE 1ST PAGE OF THIS THREAD.....

IS A MASSIVE REASON WHY I CHOOSE LIV......OR ARWEN IN THIS CASE!

SHE GAVE UP IMMORTALITY FOR LOVE, THATS AS BIG AS IT GETS PEOPLE. YOU [/u]MUST[u] RESPECT THAT.
Lozza
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 15, 2004 12:06

Eowyn needs to learn to accept things for the way they are and she needs to learn to love people for the right reasons.


Love implies many things and there are many forms of love. In my mind Eowyn always loved Aragorn and did not give up that love when he wed someone else. Respect is ALSO a form of love. Eowyn had a crush (major crush) on Aragorn, that is something that we have all been guilty of at one stage or another. Secondly, I will mention that in Aragorn, Eowyn found respect. Something that she didn´t have a lot of when growing up, it is easy to understand precisely why she fell for Aragorn in the first place. And she got her heart broken like we all have at some stage, when she discovered that the object of her crush could not/would not return her love. And there is NO reason for Eowyn to accept the mold that society pushes her into. There is no acceptable reason for ANYONE to simply accept the mold that ruling minority of society pushes them into. In many ways this is against human nature and certainly against the rules of the society in which she was raised.
Eowyn feared neither pain nor death, but she went to war unsure of whether what she was doing was wrong or right and not knowing for certain that she would find glory before the end.
Arwen had to choose between two different types of death, but was certain that Aragorn and her father both loved her and would respect whatever choice she made, even if they didn´t LIKE it.
Eowyn chose the path of uncertainty, Arwen never stepped off the path of certainty, for this and many other reasons I greatly respect Eowyn´s character.

ai6276 - can you please turn the caps-lock off when posting...


[Edited on 15/5/2004 by Lozza]
k
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 15, 2004 12:09
yes indeed Lozza, if we all just accepted what our society wanted from us then well its unthinkable. Certainly in terms of Tolkien if Arwen had accepted things the way they were she probably should have stayed an elf and gone to the undying lands with her kin...

Lómiothiel
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 28, 2004 01:27
Eowyn for sure. When I first saw aArwen, I don't know I just didn't look up to her, but Eowyn really inspired me! It's weird she just seemed a lot stronger, even though Arwen gave up her immortality for Love. Than again who's to say that Eowyn wouldn't do that in the same situation? Eowyn fought for her life and for her father's honour! She just really inspired me.
vaya
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 28, 2004 08:12
We expect women to take care of themselves and be tough. Female heros today (at least in the US) are people like Buffy and Sydney from Alias. And yes, they are awesome and kick butt and everything, but they leave girls like me out in the cold. Even magazines and "women's shows" like Oprah reward out and out violence with "Hero" labels. This leaves quite a few women (like me) feeling like we're not tough or we have to do things that are against our nature to get ahead. I am NOT tough. I could never do anything remotely resembling anything violent. I hold my own, sure, I mean, I'm no doormat, but women like Eowyn and Buffy just don't inspire me.


Word.

It is nice that there is now a wider variety of strong female characters, thanks to Farscape! YAY FARSCAPE!

sorry

Anyways, it used to be that a "strong female character" was mostly just Rambo with ovaries and breasts. Characters like Rippley and X-men women, had some feminine qualities, but are playing by the rules of the guys, they just play it better

Then Xena came along, and the strong female archetype got even more feminine qualities. A mother and a lover, a sister, a daughter, and more than a three-dimensional character.

In the comic book ElfQuest, Weny Pini creates all kinds of females, all strong but in different directions. Fighters, healers, gatherers, soldiers, mothers and guards...

Farscape brings it to the mainstream, all the women on it are tough as nails, not in a physical way either.

All the women are complicated, and have strength wether it is physical, mental or spiritual...

So this brings us to Lord of the Rings...

Both women are flawed, both women are strong, but in different ways.

Eowyn is a soldier, she has fierce loyalty to her family and is a passionate person. She has yet to find herself completely, and loses herself in Aragorn, a man who really is too good to be true. In him, she thinks she can attain glory. On the battle fields of Pellanor fields, she finds her courage to defend her uncle against unspeakable evil. She finds love with Faramir and a true connection *sniff, I love that part*

Arwen has spiritual strength, and is torn between her love for her father and her love for Aragorn, her immortality and her mortal love. To accept that if she marries Aragorn, she will be in for a world of pain when he dies, but accepting that without pain, there is no love, and that the price is worth it, because she will have children with him.

Both women are strong characters, so it's hard to decide...

I have to go with Eowyn though
Gwathhenator
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 28, 2004 07:46
Eowyn's always complaining

I think I might be taking a page from Lozza here and say: thank god Eowyn complained. If she had not complained, if she didn't strive to be what she wanted to be, she would have be condemned by a society (which just so happens to be dominated by males) to live the way they wanted her to. A passive, unimportant, caregiver. She would have been considered weak all her life, she would be overlooked, and she was already depressed as it is, add a couple years of having to be like that and where would she be? If people don't act like Eowyn and choose their future and strive for what's best for them, then they are lost to the choices of others. It's simple fact. I'm not saying we should all go physically fight wars like Eowyn (unless you want to), but everyone should complain, and should challenge tradition for what you deserve. For what your rights are. (Sorry. I'm a huge equality supporter so forgive the speech)

Needless to say I am a huge fan of Eowyn. In the case of Arwen, because of her lack of presence in the books, I never really developed much connections to her. However they were both terrible in the movie (I'm not dissing the actors, I'm dissing the script. It has become second nature) so they are equal there.

However, on a lighter notice, I think some people are taking a little to much influence from the movie with regards to Eowyn/Aragorn. In truth there was only one real scene between them (all others being entirely irrevalent aka. two seconds in drinking cup scene, dinner talk scene was just Eowyn being speculative, no real romance involved) and her feelings for Aragorn were not as strong as she thought, but more like Gandalf says young soldier to great captain. Kind of like Beregond to Faramir (except maybe even not that far because Beregond's pretty devoted). The only reason I'm going on about this is because I love Faramir and I hate it when people say he was "second-best".


[Edited on 29/5/2004 by Gwathhenator]
Huor_Carnesir
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: May 30, 2004 06:11
ARWEN!!!! OK I have to go with Arwen. Not only is she one of the best looking elves (looks very nice in those pointed ears), but she had the guts to give up her immortality for Aragorn (My kind of girl!). I enjoyed her role alot. It added a little bit of romance to the movies to make it a vital part of Aragorn's struggles with his royal blood and his heritage. It actually made me jealous yah know ... Aragorn, high king of Gondor now, gets the elven-fair-daughter-of-Elrond, and ushers in a new era of peace to middle earth. Arwen is so sweet, and the elvish she speaks is like precious music to my ears (getting a little carried away). I'm sorry Eowyn, but i didn't really like your character. I thought it was cool and all how she went to fight, but I think it would be better if it was just Merry.
aranelthedude
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 04, 2004 08:14
Personally, i prefer eowyn because shes more like me, and i understand her more. Arwen doesnt need a sword to make her strong but (sorry to all Arwen fans) i don't see why she should be so miserable. I mean, Arwen chooses not to be with her parents in the undying lands, whereas Eowyn looses her parents and her cousin and watches her uncle succumb to grief... and then she goes and fights like theres no tomorrow and kills witchking! Arwen just lyes around saying i wish i could have seen him etc etc, she could just go and find Aragorn, like ride out at night or somthing!
I am not a romantic person AT ALL but i really dont see why Arwen would give up her immortality for someone, i mean, theres gotta be some hot guys in the undying lands!
Sorry to all Arwen fans, i just... well see above.
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 05, 2004 08:05
I have to say Arwen, because as many of the other people have said before, she gave up her immortality for a man, just a plain old man, when she could have had years and years of fun while finding another man, but she didn't and is now going to die eventually. Eowyn, annoyed me increasingly every day. She wants her own glory, she only really trully loved Aragorn because she wanted to be Queen of Gondor. There was no point in her fighting, I don't believe it is a woman's place to be in a war, because any decent man could not kill or hurt a woman. Eowyn was so selfish, and so Me Me Me.
Arwen suffered quietly. She knew she couldn't do anything about it. She accepted the facts. Eowyn didn't.
vaya
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 06, 2004 04:20
There was no point in her fighting, I don't believe it is a woman's place to be in a war, because any decent man could not kill or hurt a woman.


Uuuuuum....protecting her loved ones? Her people and her land? I think those are good points to fighting

A certain amount of Eowyn's actions are deluded (particularly with Aragorn), but her "Need for Glory" isn't what prompts her to stand up to the Nazgul, it was love for her Uncle.

She went to war because there was no hope, and she would rather be with those she loved, because she could not wait for the menfolk back on the homestead like a good little woman, and really, she saves the day because she takes down the Witch-king (with an assist from Merry)

She is far too complicated to simply brush off as "selfish".
Gwathhenator
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 15, 2004 06:38
I don't believe it is a woman's place to be in a war, because any decent man could not kill or hurt a woman.

Well that's a rather sexist thing to say. Why is it okay for a man to kill a man in war, but not a women? Especially one who willingly takes up arms against them. It sets values on life according to gender, whereas we should all be equal (though ideally not of us should be killed). Eowyn took a step in that direction when she made an attempt to make herself equal to the men and become a soldier. She knowingly risked her life, and she held more of a grudge at men saying she couldn't be a soldier than if they had killed her (after all she did want to die).

[Edited on 16/6/2004 by Gwathhenator]
arwenispretty
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 22, 2004 05:11
I loved Eowyn. Liv Tyler just didn't do it for me. Come on, Arwen's supposed to be 3000 years old, but she pouts and acts like a 16-year-old! At least Eowyn has an excuse for acting a bit younger (and I don't agree that she does--if the world is going to be destroyed anyway, which is what it looked like, why not go down fighting with those you love, Eomer and Theodon). Arwen definitely seems younger and girlish next to Aragorn when she's the granddaughter of Galadriel!

Plus, I didn't like how they made her so competent in FOTR (riding the horse, drawing the sword), because then when she just stayed home it looked like she just didn't feel like helping out. Eowyn, on the other hand, wanted to fight by those she loved.

Sorry to the Arwen fans--I liked book Arwen, and unlike other Eowyn-lovers, I admit movie-Arwen was very pretty. As far as book Arwen goes, if you don't have any useful wartime skills, you don't have any. But movie Arwen struck me as immature and...well...princessy

AgordanPrincess
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 23, 2004 05:19
I'm an Eowyn fan! I love the way she 's a girl but she loves 2 kick butt! I love that! She wants 2 be out with the men! I even kinda look like her, and u gotta give her props on getting Faramir! I mean come on! Arwen is more of a girly girl she can fight but she's more of a princess! And although i look like Eowyn i am more like Arwen. I can kick butt! But......... I act like a princess! I do. My friends will back me on this! Eowyn Fan but Arwen like!
~LadyofMirkwood~~
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 07, 2004 09:19
I really loved the Eowyn in the books! I mean she was such a strong character and very dedicated and loyal. Yet when I saw the movie and really thought(and saw) more about Arwen's decision and how she too was strong mentally. She was so extremely loyal and I personally thought that she sacrificed a lot of herself. I love both characters a lot but in the end I think I like Arwen a little more.
Faramirsgirl73
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 12, 2004 06:49
Eowyn all the way! Arwen doesn't do much except sit their and look pretty. Eowyn is the only real flesh and blood woman in LOTR.
Andreth_Laiqualasse
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 14, 2004 10:11
Well, my answers differ between the books and movies.

In the books, I much prefer Eowyn. I do like Arwen, but I identify with Eowyn much more, how she kept her emotions inside, was prone to despair, fell in love with Aragorn, and eventually married Faramir. I believe that I understand her better, even though, and perhaps because, she had more faults than Arwen.

Now in the movies, it’s a different story. I think that both of them were misrepresented, neither looked like their character. (I’m not talking about costumes or makeup, those were awesome!) But I’d have to say that Liv Tyler acted more like Arwen, than Miranda Otto acted like Eowyn. She made Eowyn an almost normal girl, showed her emotions freely…I really didn’t get the idea that she was “cold”, or “stony”. In fact she seemed like a warm, likeable woman, who was rather feisty. Admitted, it was no easy role, but the thing about Eowyn is that she’s suppose to have suppressed her emotions and harbored her grief and frustration inside, and this leads her nearly to despair. I saw none of this in the Eowyn of the movies. She also didn’t look like I imagined a Norse noble woman; her beauty was too much the “cute” kind. So, in the movies, I think that Arwen was best. (it’s hard for me to say that )
goldberryiscool
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 24, 2004 06:22
There is only one choice for me. Arwen all the way. Eowyn just really bugs me, I don't even know why. I think it's because she complains & tries to take Aragorn from our dear Arwen Oh, and she always cries. But then again, so does Arwen.
ladyAredhel
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 25, 2004 10:17
For me its has too be Eowyn because Arwen didn't really do anything great. I mean she waited at rivendell with daddy while Eowyn was out fighting for what she believed in. Do u really think that Arwen would have stayed in middle-earth if the ring hadn't been destroyed? No! she would have left with daddy and gone to the un-dying lands.
sazzra
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 26, 2004 01:22
I don't particularly like either of them either. Eowyn was far too fluttery fangirl over Aragorn (he only led her on a tad, and she's all 'Ooooooo'), and Arwen was all over the place. Out of the two, though, I chose Arwen. Don't know why, just did...
Mearasiel
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 28, 2004 05:37
I've always been a huge fan of Eowyn because of her strength. It's taken me a while to like Arwen, though, cause at first I thought she was just Aragorn's love and there wasn't much to her. In FOTR (movie), I didn't really see her strength and courage. But in TTT and even more so in ROTK, I began understand her character more. I think PJ did a great job in working her into the movie; it wasn't overdone but there just enough to create a more complex story with Aragorn and the elves.

But I still prefer Eowyn (you can't beat killing the Witch King!)
glory2glorfindel
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: August 28, 2004 09:56
Well, my answers differ between the books and movies.

In the books, I much prefer Eowyn. I do like Arwen, but I identify with Eowyn much more, how she kept her emotions inside, was prone to despair, fell in love with Aragorn, and eventually married Faramir. I believe that I understand her better, even though, and perhaps because, she had more faults than Arwen.

Now in the movies, it’s a different story. I think that both of them were misrepresented, neither looked like their character. (I’m not talking about costumes or makeup, those were awesome!) But I’d have to say that Liv Tyler acted more like Arwen, than Miranda Otto acted like Eowyn. She made Eowyn an almost normal girl, showed her emotions freely…I really didn’t get the idea that she was “cold”, or “stony”. In fact she seemed like a warm, likeable woman, who was rather feisty. Admitted, it was no easy role, but the thing about Eowyn is that she’s suppose to have suppressed her emotions and harbored her grief and frustration inside, and this leads her nearly to despair. I saw none of this in the Eowyn of the movies. She also didn’t look like I imagined a Norse noble woman; her beauty was too much the “cute” kind. So, in the movies, I think that Arwen was best. (it’s hard for me to say that )


Almost ditto. I still liked Eowyn more (maybe just a tiny bit) in the movies, though, despite her not-quite-mis-representation (what with her... innocence.).
But then, the books and movies... they're completely different. Definitely connected, but they're not one thing. You can have a LotR fan who's never read the books, or one who loves the books and didn't like or didn't see the movies. So, I view the books and movies like that, and it affects my answer.
inn0centvibes
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: September 02, 2004 06:05
I like both of them but if i had to choose one I would choose.. Arwen
Mithrandir01
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: December 14, 2004 01:57
Eowyn, Definatly. I have nothing against Arwen, she's a fave of mine, but I'm more like Eowyn, and I like her sass. And look who she ends up with! Faramir! *whistles* Lucky girl! :disco:
Nick_5
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: December 17, 2004 11:23
Arwen!!!!!

I just really like Liv Tyler!
Child_of_Lúthien
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: December 20, 2004 02:48
I like both for different reasons, but I prefer Arwen. I love how ethereal and graceful she is, yet she is still strong and fearless at the same time.
Tinuviel~Evenstar
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: December 21, 2004 04:39
Eowyn and Arwen are both my favourite characters, and their presence are the high points in the movies for me. But I really do prefer Eowyn more, because she's more down to earth and you feel you can actually reach out and touch her and relate to her, whereas Arwen you can only admire from afar, like a goddess. And I really think it's time for us to drop the idea that Eowyn tried to take Aragorn away from Arwen, 'cause seriously, Eowyn didn't know Arwen even exists, and it's only natural that she fell in love with Aragorn. Even when she realized Aragorn couldn't love her, she still had deep respect and love for him in a non-romantic way, which is definitely very generous. I mean, how many of us can do that when someone we had a crush on turned us down? :naughty:
Vanathiel
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 14, 2005 05:50
Eowyn. Definately. She is going against a lifetime of tradition even if she was trained to use a sword it was never expected that she would have to or would want to use it. There is nothing wrong with someone seeking glory if they want it. She has spend years being overshadowed by the simple fact that she is a woman. Arwen had everything and anything she always wanted... So she had to give a little to get the man she wanted big deal. The choice was physical death or death of her heart. It really isn´t a big decision either way she decided.


Exactly!!!!! Mortality was a GIFT to men. I think her choice was a rather easy one for her to make. I mean, she gets to marry the man she loves and live a happy life with him, and she is not doomed to live forever in a harsh world where everybody dies but you and your family. I know I would make the same choice without hesitation.
Angel_Of_Athens
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 15, 2005 07:48
I like them both. They both had important parts to the story, though Eowyn was the female lead. But they were both completey different. It's very hard to compare them. Arwen was an elf who had to make a very hard desicion. Eowyn was a mortal woman who was very brave and took part in a battle. They both helped save Middle Earth. For many of you who want to argue on how Arwen helped save Middle Earth too, I'll explain. First of all Arwen's Evenstar protected Aragorn in battle and he needed to be protected because he needed to be king, she became Queen of Gondor and the Elven line continues through Arwen and Aragron. Her staying in Middle Earth kept a part of the Elves in Middle Earth forever say they will never be forgotten.
eowyn4u
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 21, 2005 11:14
TOTALLY eowyn! I mean not only did she have to go against this whole sexism thing with men are better then women, she had skills and she had to look after her uncle. I reckon she desrved the right to be famous and popular- her dream was to marry aragorn, don't people tell you follow your dreams, In my opinon eowyn should got to have married aragorn- in my opinion she worked harder for it. Arwen has and gets pretty much everything. Eowyn had to fight and work for it.
fbc
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 23, 2005 02:38
eowyn4u, love is a beautiful thing. There must be something beautiful in Arwen for Aragorn to have loved her so. I think it's your loss if you can't appreciate their relationship.
eowyn4u
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 23, 2005 10:45
No, fbc, I understand their love very much, its a very sweet thing actually how dedicated she is to him and him to her, I just find it a shame on eowyns end, I found reading the books, that marrying Faramir was like a second- choice, perhaps something that truley wouldn't have made her happy, of course she's happy, but is or was she truley happy? Thats how I percieved it reading the book- how did anyone else percieve it? I also find, that alot of times elrond is very neglected. No one really seems to think how he must feel losing his daughter. He first lost his wife, and now his life, losing all the important women in your life must be very down-bringing. And perhaps, how would celebrian feel when she finds that she'll never see her daughter again, I think people often igonore those two characters and their feelings.
AniDarling
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 27, 2005 04:30
I like them both. In the book I like more Eowyn than in the movies, but Arwen is just ... I love her in the book and in the movie, I think that the legend of Aragorn and Arwen is the graetest legend!
yankeegirl
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 27, 2005 02:21
I say Eowyn. She really went through a lot of trials and hardships but rose above all of them. She takes on a lot of things that would be hard for anyone to take on and she does well.
Eveligh
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Post RE: Arwen and Eowyn
on: June 27, 2005 06:17
I would have to say that I prefer Eowyn but I do not dislike Arwen. I say Eowyn because though her choice to go to battle was to seek death because she could not have the love she sought, it soon turned to her defending everything she loved such as her uncle. As for her love with Faramir, I think it was real. He was offering her a life of peace, of healing and she had won the renown she had long sought after. Faramir was a fair man, not that Aragorn isn't!

Also, even though it was for the wrong sort of reasons, I admire Eowyn for having the courage to go after what she wanted and winning it.

And now to Arwen I think she must be admired for her sacrifice. Even though it may seem small to some it was something that Arwen felt she must do. There are many other reasons why she is great but I've gone on long enough!
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