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Frodo~the~Second
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: July 06, 2011 07:45
LOL, Crimson! What about when people make the characters say "Yeah", "Wow!", or "Heck"?

~Frodo (the Second)
IndilwenLanathiel
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: November 11, 2011 10:06
There are probably more I could think of but right now only one comes to mind because I have seen it A LOT more lately. Characters using bad words. I am almost alright with made up characters saying them(I would prefer not to hear/read them at all) but especially Tolkien characters. Mostly Aragorn, Legolas and Boromir. I don't know why these guys are targeted for being forced to say something they would never say in a million years(I consider them real men. In my book real men NEVER say slang/bad words). I have even thought of writing a fan-fic about those characters and how they get fed up with people writing about them saying such things
MallornHugger
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: January 26, 2012 01:09
Ah, just when I needed to release my inner frustration with fanfiction. Prepare for oncoming rant.

1. Abusive and Sexist Boromir - When, ever, in book or movie universe, does Boromir even mention women? He's got more important things on his mind, like fighting the urge of the Ring, perhaps? So, why in the world, would he ever stop and think about how women should, according to the fanfiction world, stay home and have knitting tournaments. It's always in the Council of Elrond, just when the girl *cough*Mary-Sue*cough* happens to appear in Middle-earth (I'll get to this later). He happens to say something, and immediately, the girl jumps up and defends whoever or whatever he's talking about. Boromir then demands why is a woman at this council (I'm with you Boromir!) and not at home producing heirs to her husband. Ugh. Said girl and Boromir continue to fight all the way through the story, and always, always, the rest of the Fellowship side with the girl. And then, of course, Denethor gets the exact same treatment by the girl. The whole family of Stewards (with the exception of poor little Faramir who was always abused) is just totally villianized.

2. When the writer EXACTLY copies the script of the movie - I'm seeing this more and more now. I don't know where the writers are getting the script from, I certainly know, however, that these girls with the attention span of a squirrel (or as long as their lust-object is in the room), will not sit through the entire movie just so they can write down what they say. And don't tell me you "memorized" the script, even the stuff from the EEs. Heck, even Gandalf saying the Ring poem in Black Speech, that you conveniently "memorized." The speech never changes, except when the OC speaks, and then new speech is only added in. People are too lazy to write their own stories, even about their beloved OCs. Not I, nor anybody else, has memorized the entire script of all three movies. If you have, it's time for you to graduate to the books. And besides, it so, so boring to basically re-read the movie again.

3. Maiar having children - Yes, yes, I know Maiar having children is canonical, but how about Sauron having children (whoops, I mean daughter, they never seem to have sons...). Or how about Gandalf? Saruman? Can you, seriously, imagine Sauron having a daughter? No, I'm sure he hates children, he probably delights in torturing them. When they always fail him, he sends them to go as a spy among the Fellowship. Of course, a fully clad in black, black eye-shadow, and black-lipped girl appearing as teenager perfectly fits in with the Fellowship.

4. The all mighty "What business does an Elf, Man, and a Dwarf have in the Riddermark?" - Writers seem to have so much fun with this line. Yes, it is a weird line that sounds like a cheesy joke, we've all heard, we've all joked about it, but thousands of fanfics making a joke about is enough. Enough. Of course, Éomer must then add "...an Elf, Man, Dwarf, woman/girl...". And then, because Boromir's dead, Éomer becomes the sexist.

5. Random Elvish in the middle of an English sentence - Why? Why? This is how it usually goes "blah blah blah Legolas blah blah blah meleth nin blah blah blah." Why would anyone ever be speaking in the Common Tongue, and then add a Sindarin word. Just speak in Sindarin!

6. Writers who filch names off of canonical characters - I hate this. It's the race of Men who take names from Elves, not Elves! Denethor and Finduilas for example, both are named for Elves in the First Age. Why would an Elf (who lives in Lothlórien, by the way) be named Mithrellas, when in the recent Third Age, there has already been an Elf named Mithrellas. And then there is the unbelievably beautiful Elf named Lúthien, who has never seen a Silmaril, nor even heard of a man named Beren. That, or the OC takes the alias of Lúthien.

7. The Valar! - It happens when a girl who has only seen the movie decides to look up Lord of the Rings on the Internet. Undoubtedly, she eventually ends up with a link to the Valar. Oh boy. Soon you'll be hearing, "Oh praise the Valar for your safety [insert cheesy Mary Sue name here]!" By the way, dear movie fan, "Oh" should be spelled as "O," if you want to write like Tolkien. And then the big guns come out with Eru. O Valar.

8. The girl falls in Middle-earth plot - It's been done to death. Girl has been abused, has never heard of Tolkien before, and magically, after a car crash/thunderstorm/when she wakes up, she's in "gasp* Middle-earth! Right before the Council of Elrond as well! And they just happen to let her in without ANY questions! And the rest is history...And, of course, she's always a nose-bleed, heart stoppingly beautiful teenage girl.

There's more I would name, but I've worked up an appetite from aggravation. I hope I haven't come off as too hateful. I honestly do love fanfiction, but some aspects of it drive me crazy.
~nólemë~
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: January 30, 2012 11:18
Thank you for your opinion MallornHugger. Perhaps it will appease your aggravation when I say that point 2 and point 8 are not accepted on CoE (unless the latter is very realistic).

On points 5, 6 and 7 - I know what you mean, these do look amusing when in a very simple story. But seeing as Tolkien himself uses 'Valar' and Elvish words in English sentences, and admits that some names (sure, not really Luthien and the all-important guys, but you get the gist) can be given to multiple Elves, I feel I should defend the authors somewhat. But that's not to say one has to like these features.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
MallornHugger
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Post Re: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 11, 2012 05:48
I don't mind it when an author throws in the Valar or Elvish, just as long as they know what they're doing. If it's someone who's read the Silmarillion, or at least gone through LOTR's appendix, I'm fine with it. It just frustrates me when they insert those words in there and they obviously don't know what significance it holds. Sorry if I seem a little over zealous, it irks me when writers don't do their research.
findemaxam48
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on: July 31, 2013 12:46
I hate it when the events are so far fetched you cant imagine them ever happening. Like girl-falls-into-Middle-Earth. Sure, it would be great if it happened, but when does it ever!? And when characters are twisted around to make them appear like they really arent. Fanfics should stay relatively true to the real thing, in my opinion. Not all the way true, but, mostly.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
EruwaedhielOfRohan
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: December 13, 2013 04:53
purplefluffychainsaw said:
Adding members to the fellowship. It's one thing to give Elrond extra daughters but DON'T have them join the mission/quest/thingie, pleeeeze!


"You shall count to nine, nine is the number of your counting. You shall not count to ten, nor to eleven. Nine is the number of the Fellowship."

**Snicker** I couldn't resist, mate.


Ha! Ha ha ha! I loved Miss Cam's OFUM.

Things that bug me about Fan Fiction:

1. Bad spelling/grammar! Argh argh argh argh argh! I don't mind occasional mistakes, everyone make them, but when the author begins to appear illiterate....
2. Yes, adding members to the Fellowship. (You never would've guessed, right?)
3. Mary-Sues. 'Nuff said.
4. Pulling characters out of character and twisting them into something they aren't.... *shudder*
5. Slang, foul language, and when characters sound modern. Legolas calling someone a "[bleep]ing hott chick"? Uh, no. Sorry.
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findemaxam48
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on: December 14, 2013 01:27
I forgot about the bad language! Ack....
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Gandolorin
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on: December 14, 2013 04:13
I do not know who or, as a generic term, what a Mary Sue is.
I can guess at dozens of reasons for this ignorance, would take up too much space.
Can anyone help this old geezer out?
(I suddenly feel as old as my avater looks!)
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Marcotonio
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on: December 14, 2013 09:18
Here, Gandolorin: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
Beware, click the link only if you've got the time to be stuck into a lot of reading, as this site is highly addictive.
Gandolorin
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on: December 15, 2013 12:27
Marcotonio said:Here, Gandolorin: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
Beware, click the link only if you've got the time to be stuck into a lot of reading, as this site is highly addictive.


Thanks a lot for the link, Marcotonio!

I thought the most interesting thing was that there have been similar characters as far back as the 19th century! And 1974 something-with-Star-Trek is also pretty ancient by current media’s attention span.
Looks like: excessive powers and abilities, excessive ease of picking up further powers and abilities as needed, and Just-Too-Good-To-Be-True character qualities, (inadvertently) taken to the edge of parody and beyond. Within the canon.
Going beyond the canon, it seems to have become a catchall phrase perhaps meaning something to those using it, but not necessarily to those hearing it.
Heading the way of the word most emptied of any useful meaning in the English language (and some others too, German among them):

cool
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findemaxam48
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on: December 20, 2013 04:24
I used to have a hard time writing because I would create Mary Sue-ish characters, but I am definitely improving. Creative writing classes work miracles...
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Estel Telcontar
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: December 20, 2015 06:50
EldarChild said:1) Spelling errors, like everyone else these bug me when no effort is made to even spell things correctly

2) Adding members to the fellowship. It's one thing to give Elrond extra daughters but DON'T have them join the mission/quest/thingie, pleeeeze!

3) Fics that completely ignore basic plot devices and leave you wondering what in Mordor just happened.

Eh, think that's it. I've seen LOTR characters completely cross genres too. Ie: Aragorn or Legolas showing up in Robin Hood or King Arthur...or *shudder* Hogwarts.
What is wrong with crossing genres?
Estel Telcontar
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: December 20, 2015 07:08
LinweSingollo said:I've thought about offering beta help, Socks, but I'm afraid I'd be pretty ruthless. :evil: I support and encourage people's efforts at writing and don't want to crush anyone's dreams, but my patience with bad, clichéd, Are You Out of Your Mind writing is virtually nil. The writers' would need to have the intestinal fortitude for my merciless red pen.:evil:
I'm exactly like that!
Gandolorin
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on: December 20, 2015 07:23
Besides two Hobbit parodies in book form that I own, the only Tolkien fan fiction I know is (Sir) Peter Jackson's movie trilogy treatment of The Hobbit ...
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Avaloyuru
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on: October 15, 2017 09:48
The more time I spend reading through the various threads on the topic of writing fanfiction, the more apprehensive I feel about attempting to submit anything to this site. I've been an admirer of Tolkien since the early 70's and would not want to change anything as far as what had already been published by him or his son Christopher.

Yet this begs the question of what exactly are the majority of the readers on this site looking for in terms of fanfiction relating to Tolkiens works. I will admit the majority of my writings are a bit antagonistic, exploiting the balance of good and evil, delving into the darker side of human nature(and 'others' in the case of facfiction). Some of the storylines can be quite sexual, even erotic.

With all of this being said and with respect for Tolkien, my writings begin at the end of The Return of the King. The only change I have made is that Aragorn does not marry Arwen.

Thanks for reading!
Avaloyuru
Gandolorin
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on: October 15, 2017 01:01
There is the item in the sidebar called “Fan Creations” which might interest you. But it could by now very well have mostly historical interest, as many activities on this site (and at least another site I frequent) have died down. Perhaps because for the foreseeable future, not further JRRT films are on the horizon. Not like perhaps the Star Trek, Star Wars or (a broader case) Marvel Comics universe, which have been producing new movies at least every once in a while. So there may not be any readers on this site left with an interest in fanfiction.

As for some of the characteristics of your writing that you mention, I have a hunch that some might run afoul of the site’s PG13 rating. I mentioned ~nólemë~ in an earlier post, moderator for the Creation Forum – she posted on this page above, the post is dated 31 January, 2012. I know she is still active (was in a chatroom Saturday evening), so she should be the perfect person to contact on such topics.
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Hanasian
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on: October 15, 2017 06:14
Mae govannen Ava! Sounds like you have some interesting tales! I for one look forward to reading them.

The fan fiction on this site looks like a self-rating by the author with warnings, and it is up to the reader not to read that which may be taken as offensive to them. From the Fan Fiction Header Page:

PLEASE NOTE: You read stories in here at your own risk - you may find some stories that are not suitable for younger viewers, so take any warnings seriously. Additionally, you may find some slash (i.e. same-sex) pairings in our archive. If you want to avoid those kinds of stories, don't click on any that contain the word 'slash' in the summary or genre.


This appears pretty open as far as Tolkien sites go. I'm sure nólemë can point out the rating guidelines somewhere. I will note that there is a lack of self-editing ability on this site, and has to be done my admin, which is not ideal.

You may want to check out a couple of the literary sites that accept the stronger rated stories. Open Scrolls, Many Paths To Tread, Stories of Arda, and An Archive Of Our Own are ones that come to mind.

[Edited on 10/16/2017 by Arveleg]
Eighth King of Arthedain - It was in battle that I come into this Kingship, and it will be in Battle when I leave it. There is no peace for the Realm of Arnor. Read the last stand of Arthedain in the Darkest of Days.
~nólemë~
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on: October 19, 2017 03:46
@ Avaloyuru: My experience with what gets fics reviews is that all types of stories attract their own faithful reader base. Stories full of action, humor and plot twists typically get many reviews, poetry and reflection stories typically get fewer. On CoE, you should take into account the overall lower member activity than on a fanfic-centric site such as fanfiction net. But if that's not a problem for you, you can go ahead and post some of your writings. You can find a newbie guide to writing CoE-friendly fanfic right in this forum, among the topped threads. It addresses the rating and AU concerns that you raised. If you've got any questions, feel free to PM me.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
ElwingAndEarendil
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on: November 12, 2017 09:55
As a fanfiction author going on six years now,and now pursing a degree in creative writing as well as published and paid, I find there to be very little fanfiction types that I dislike across the board. And this is coming from a Silmarillion fanatic who won't ship much if it isn't Canon.

But for me it all comes down to execution.

Girl Falls Into Middle Earth can be done VERY well. I've read two that come straight to mind, one on FFN that's Hobbit centric, and one on Ao3 that's LotR timeline. Both were/are amazing stories with compelling plots.

OC/Canon Romances can also be done well. I personally don't read a lot of romance based fics, but honestly as long as it's explained well (For Aragorn, is it an AU where Arwen sailed? For example). If it's shoehorned in, there we have problems.

I remember when I read this thread, a mention about Girl Falls Into stories often featuring abused/depressed female OCs. I don't mind that. I think people who don't write fail to realize that it could perhaps be/is often a reflection of the author. I hesitate to critize that.

Tenth Walker can be done well. I myself have written in what I like to call "bonus Ninth walker" which basically entailed an OC joining up for a short time after Lothlorien to fullfil the "Nine Walkers to match the Nine Riders" idea. Sure it breaks Canon because there's a new character, but it retains the spirit of canon.

Premarital sex between Elves is one of those that also needs to be done well. Is there an explanation? Was the elf/ves so drunk (think: Guard in The Hobbit) that they didn't know what they were doing? Also, what happens next. Do they marry the person? Is there a fall out? Do they refuse to marry ever in shame?

Slash is... Eh. I don't mind it in modern stories, like Marvel fanfics, but Tolkien was pretty clear. It certainly would not be something accepted in Middle Earth.

Misspelling can be annoying. That's probably the only one I'm a stickler for, and that's only if it's super bad. And often, English may not be the writer's first language.
"The Deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song..." - Haunting the Realm of Vaire as the Corrupted Major - Find me as Silmarilz1701 everywhere else
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