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VendeaErunyauve

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RE: Slash
on: January 25, 2006 12:00

I agree with the original post and would take it a step further in that I would not try to appease anyone when I say that Slash forced into LOTR is disgusting. The idea you can research the LOTR universe and then write "good slash" is nonsense. Slash has nothing to do with LOTR and does not belong in the universe Tolkien created. Tolkien was very clear about his characters. There is no sexual ambiguity in Tolkien's writings.

This post should not offend anyone. I am not attacking anyone, but slash does not belong in LOTR fiction if any of Tolkien's characters are used. If you want to write slash, that's your business. Create your own universe and characters, don't ruin Tolkien's. By the way, I also didn't care for Jackson's treatment of Arwen although I came to enjoy her character in the movies. I thought Jackson took liberties with Tolkien's universe with Arwen. But that's just MHO.

Andreth_Laiqualasse

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RE: Slash
on: January 27, 2006 01:45

You know, I've been almost permanently turned of from fanfiction because of the "slash" content in so much of it. I can't very well understand why people feel they have a right to take Tolkien's beautiful characters and world and exploit them for their own devices. I'm more of the opinion of VendeaErunyauve, it simply doesn't belong in anything having to do with Tolkien. End of rant.

newsgirl

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RE: Slash
on: February 04, 2006 11:39

Heeh. Agreed.

caliowin

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RE: Slash
on: February 19, 2006 09:27

I personally love HP slash.. but when it comes to TLOTR--- its just horrible!! I don't think TLOTR slash fics should be written.. they just appall me.

No idea why i'm opposed to TLOTR slash and not HP or other slash... guess it juse seems to desecrate Tolkiens beautiful stories.

Rivka

Frodo Fanatic and Head Oligarch
Posts: 3760
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RE: Slash
on: February 25, 2006 01:44

If you want to write slash, that's your business. Create your own universe and characters, don't ruin Tolkien's.

I can't very well understand why people feel they have a right to take Tolkien's beautiful characters and world and exploit them for their own devices. I'm more of the opinion of VendeaErunyauve, it simply doesn't belong in anything having to do with Tolkien.

I don't think TLOTR slash fics should be written.. they just appall me.

To be blunt...who are you to say who should and shouldn't do any type of writing? If you don't like the kind of stories in question, don't read them. To say that because you don't like something, that it shouldn't exist at all is on the extreme edge of arrogance.

As an example, I hate Mary Sues with a passion. Does that give me the right to say that people shouldn't write Mary Sues? That you shouldn't have the right to read them if you want to? I do have the power to say to myself, "I won't read Mary Sues because I find them detestable," but to extend that in anyway to say that other people shouldn't be able to read or write them goes against the basic laws of democracy and free will.

Tolkien's work is no more "sacred" than any other work of fiction. Some of you hold it in high reverence -- good for you. But no one has the right to tell anyone else to do or not to do anything, if said act has no bearing on you personally and is not against the law. Feel free to say that you don't like something and why, but once you start crossing the line towards saying that other people shouldn't enjoy something that you don't like, then you start to come off as narrowminded and judgmental.

And look at it this way -- fanfiction, by its very nature, is a desecration of an original work of fiction. Only the original author has the legal "right" to create works based on their own characters. Do you get upset when someone writes a story that has Arwen and Legolas falling in love? Or one in which Aragorn and Eowyn actually end up together? Stories such as that are as "unnatural" as any slash story, because they are completely the opposite of what the author intended. Rather than getting upset over fiction you don't like, find the fiction you do like, and let those that like slash (or bad fics, or Mary Sues, or whatever) enjoy it without interferance and without judgmentalism. Rail against bad fics all you like -- and if your definition of a bad fic includes anything that is slash, that's fine -- just don't say that such stories have no right to exist.

And my final thought is this: 95% of fanfiction is sheer and utter crap anyway, IMO, slash or het or whatever. It's rare that any fanfiction author has an understanding of the characters and story to the point that they can write a believable story, AND has writing skills that are good enough that I don't feel like stabbing my eye out with a fork upon reading their story. Slash fiction, in general, is no better and no worse in story line, characterisation, and writing style then the rest of the fanfiction that exists out there, if you ask me.

"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

LinweSingollo

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RE: Slash
on: February 26, 2006 07:39

woo. what a hot topic. I've always been haunted by the sneaking suspicion that my fan-fics (het, by the way) were sheer and utter crap and I've often felt some lingering guilt because I'm almost certainly desecrating Tolkien in some way. Yet I keep on writing because it amuses and satisfies me at some level. I don't think slash should be written either - in fact there's a lot of things I don't think people should do - but I draw the line at actually trying to stop other people from doing those things. Their actions aren't my responsibility. I just don't read the stuff.

"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien

Rivka

Frodo Fanatic and Head Oligarch
Posts: 3760
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RE: Slash
on: February 26, 2006 01:44

Yet I keep on writing because it amuses and satisfies me at some level.

And that I think is generally one of the goals of most fanfiction authors -- to amuse themselves (there are others, I'm sure). And that's fine -- wonderful, in fact. If a by-product of amusing yourself is that other people enjoy your writing, then great! What really gets my goat, though, is when someone doesn't enjoy something, be it slash, a certain pairing, a certain type of writing, or whatever, that they translate that personal dislike into "Well, no one should read/write it because I find it [insert your adjective of choice: disgusting/disrespectful/appalling/whatever]." Live and let live.

"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

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RE: Slash
on: March 03, 2006 03:40

95% of fanfiction is sheer and utter crap anyway

http://monstersandcritics.wordpress.com/

Tyrhael

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RE: Slash
on: March 04, 2006 09:03

95% of fanfiction is sheer and utter crap anyway

Literally. I once came across a terrible fanfic that recorded the bowel movements of certain characters... *shudders*

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RE: Slash
on: March 04, 2006 11:02

I wasn't grinning in derision; I was grinning in embarrassment. I write fan fiction, you see.

http://monstersandcritics.wordpress.com/

Rivka

Frodo Fanatic and Head Oligarch
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RE: Slash
on: March 05, 2006 11:11

I should add, too, that I've written some fanfiction as well. It was pretty crappy

My standards are rather high, though, when it comes to what I read -- I'm a former librarian, and I read a lot. And I'm very picky about what I spend my time reading, and I don't waste my time on stuff that is poorly written. I imagine most people would agree that there's a lot of bad fanfic out there, though I imagine most wouldn't put the percentage as high as I have

But really -- even though I think most fanfic is very, very bad, that shouldn't dissuade people from doing it (and it doesn't dissuade me from reading the few pieces that I've found that are good). There are many things that I enjoy doing that I'm quite bad at -- quilting being one of them. Your enjoyment of an activity should be based on how much fun you get out of it, not what other people perceive of the quality of your work. It probably helps if you get lauded as the next great author/artist/seamstress

, but it shouldn't be the defining factor in whether or not you engage in the activity.

"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

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RE: Slash
on: March 05, 2006 02:38

Your enjoyment of an activity should be based on how much fun you get out of it, not what other people perceive of the quality of your work.

Well, it's important to try to improve, and constructive criticism helps.

http://monstersandcritics.wordpress.com/

LinweSingollo

Movies & Casting Mod, Resident Hobbit & Frodo's Footstool
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RE: Slash
on: March 08, 2006 08:09

I should add that I don't read slash any more. I have read a bunch of it in the past --- some so beautifully written that I wanted to run my stories through the shredder and take up basket-weaving. The ones I liked best tended to be the stories that emphasized the emotions of mutual love rather than describing the excplicit mechanics of sex scene after sex scene.

Then of course there was the truly appalling stuff where I thought the authors deserved to have their fingers stomped on. But that goes for any genre really. I very seldom read fan-fiction any more for the main reason that most don't meet my picky standards and I quit slash mainly because I decided that I didn't want to think of Tolkien's characters in that particular light. I would, however, defend anyone's right to read/write slash regardless how I felt about it personally.

"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien

Rivka

Frodo Fanatic and Head Oligarch
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RE: Slash
on: March 09, 2006 03:19

I quit slash mainly because I decided that I didn't want to think of Tolkien's characters in that particular light

That's a sentiment I can agree with, actually. I don't particularly like to view Tolkien's characters in that light, either. I usually don't read slash in general, simply because it's not of interest to me, but I did read a few Frodo/Sam stories back in the day, and it made me think about the characters in a way that I would prefer not to; not in that I have an issue with two male characters having a romantic relationship, but for me, by changing that dynamic from servant/master to lovers, it totally changed the characters themselves.

There are some books/shows/whatever in which I personally have read a bit more slash -- Smallville being one of them -- because the idea of it made more sense to me, and I didn't particularly mind the idea of the two characters in question being involved, as it didn't modify the relationship in question (in the case of Smallville, it explains it better in some ways). But yeah -- Slash in general isn't something that interests me, just like Mary Sues don't, or stories in which Aragorn marries Eowyn, or a whole slew of other genres or pairings that just don't grab my interest.

I would, however, defend anyone's right to read/write slash regardless how I felt about it personally.

And another sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with

"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Soulshadow_Peredhil

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RE: Slash
on: March 15, 2006 01:53

I must admit, I was an absolutely rabid LotR slasher for a lot of years; even when I read the books, long before the movies, I was, I confess, an absolute slashwraith. And to an extent I still am. However, as I've grown up personally and matured emotionally, I've found what I want in fanfic -- both reading and writing -- has changed drastically. I still love (well-written!!) slash stories, but I place a lot of importance on the emotional connection: it can't and mustn't all be about the sex. I believe it's possible for two people to have such a deep and understanding relationship that they might not seek physical comfort with anyone else, and yet at the same time, they don't need to have sex with one another. I see it as "friendship with benefits" in reverse -- instead of being friends and casual partners, it's more like being lovers but also best friends, and the focus doesn't have to be on the physical. I know I'm explaining it badly -- sorry for that!

For example, I used to ship Legolas/Aragorn and Elrond/Glorfindel absolutely rabidly, and to an extent I still do. For the sake of illustration, I think they're both good pairs to explain my point above. In canon, Elrond loved Celebrían; they married, they had three children, she was injured, she sailed West. I think it's entirely plausible that he might turn to Glorfindel (who I must admit I think of as his best friend) for comfort, but on the other hand, does that comfort need to be physical? On a technicality, some people might say that so much as hugging or sharing a bed (without sex) would put this sort of thing into the category of slash, but I think of it as deeper than that -- deeper than friendship, and definitely deeper than being lovers. While I admit I've written them as lovers and more than likely will again in the future, it's the emotional aspect that does it for me. And that begs the question -- is having such a deep friendship and/or love for someone other than your partner a form of 'cheating', or is it 'just a friendship'?

The other big important issue for me is plausibility. Yes, I love E/G and L/A, among other pairings, but I can't get into a story which has obvious OOC-ness or major canon changes if it's not noted down as AU right from the offset. I must admit, I believe firmly that Elves wouldn't necessarily have a problem with same-sex relationships. Men might be a bit more complex; Dwarves we know have gender issues anyway (ahem!); and hobbits I'm not sure on; but Elves are immortal, and by the end of the Third Age their dominion is fading anyway: they don't need to marry and reproduce, so -- in my opinion -- why should their society have any taboos against same-sex relationships? It seems to me, based on what (admittedly little) I understand of Elven philosophy in general, that it's better to be truly happy with the one you love, and so what if that person is the same gender as you are...

That's just my thought on the matter though -- I suppose you might call it my 'excuse' for writing elfslash!

...I had no idea this ramble had got so long. I do apologise!

~~Soulshadow_Peredhil

LinweSingollo

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RE: Slash
on: March 15, 2006 06:51

I can probably count on one hand the well-written slash stories I've read (not that I've read that much) that dealt mainly with a deep emotional connection between characters rather than just focusing on writing porn. One of the main problems I had with slash is that the characters (hobbits, in my case) became distorted caricatures of themselves, persons I no longer recognized and loved as being Tolkien's. While some of the writing was talented, most of it (IMO) was too sophisticated for hobbit culture, the authors too often foisting 21st century sensibilities and attitudes on them.

"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien

Thoronriel

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RE: Slash
on: September 27, 2006 06:38

I'm wondering if people here (meaning those who say slash is disgusting) have formed their opinion by one or two fics... or just by LotR slash fics. I love slash. Just love it. But I agree with people that Aragorn/legolas type of pairings are horrible. I hate to read fics where the writer has completely ignored what Tolkien wrote and just wants to write his/her own story with Tolkien's characters. I haven't read that much LotR slash though ^^ (I mainly read RPS) But I like the fics where there is characters of which Tolkien didn't tell so much about. Like Glorfindel, Haldir, Elrond's sons, Erestor, Lindir (yes, when it comes to LotR, only elves for me ^^;; ) and I admit I like slash with Elrond as well... IF there is Celebrian somehow mentioned and then somekind of explanation why Elrond isn't faithful to her...

But ofcoure there is disgusting slash fics as well. As well as there is horrible het fics and so on... And at least I have been told that slash means male/male pairing, femslash female/female pairing and het female/male pairing... And I'd be quite sure that at least most slash writers are women... Young women. Even if the fic is NC-17, it doesn't mean the author is that old herself. I know there are 16 and 15 year-old girls who write NC-17 slash. And no, that doesn't mean their fics are horrible xD

But also, slash fics by women aren't always (read: mostly) correct. But there is as simple reason as that women usually don't have very much experience about sex between two males... I bet that if you give a slash fic to gay guy, he'll probalbly laugh his brains out xD

But alfterall there is only one thing need to be said. There is people who like (love) slash: let them.
If you don't like slash: don't read it. No matter how much you hate it, there will always be slash because there will always be people who like it.

It's that simple ^_^ [size=-7](so why did I write all that?)[/size]

[Edited on 27/9/2006 by Thoronriel]

darkfey9

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RE: Slash
on: November 15, 2006 08:12

Slash is stupid if not done properly. When it's just a big joke and completely perverted, it is disgusting. Especially when it involves people who are obviously NOT, such as people who are MARRIED! I once wrote a lesbian love story, which was written purely for the love story. There was no mockery involved, no sex came into the writing. Why is it when people write about guy/girl couples, they are content to stick implying what goes on. However, with homosexula romances, it seems readers are stupid and must be informed of everything?

starofdunedain

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RE: Slash
on: March 06, 2007 01:54

Slash is stupid if not done properly. When it's just a big joke and completely perverted, it is disgusting. Especially when it involves people who are obviously NOT, such as people who are MARRIED! I once wrote a lesbian love story, which was written purely for the love story. There was no mockery involved, no sex came into the writing. Why is it when people write about guy/girl couples, they are content to stick implying what goes on. However, with homosexula romances, it seems readers are stupid and must be informed of everything?

Well said.
Personaly I don't like any slash with main LOTR characters. I will however go for fics with Glorfindel, Erestor or any other minor character that isn't married. I have read only a few slash fanfics and was digusted by them.
Is there any good slash that doesn't involve main LOTR characters?

P.S. Does anyone like Maedhros/Fingon pairing?

elbarto

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RE: Slash
on: April 14, 2007 07:27

True. I read this one that was really bad, and the worst part was that I didn't know it was a slash! It was labeled as humor, but it was horrifying. It also happened that I didn't see the rating for it, since I just googled 2 random words... :cry:

I don't think the world will stop being violent anytime so everyone's going to end up seeing (but hopefully not doing) something disturbing. Like playing video games, or "1984". In the second example, it says people, by nature, enjoy violence. I'm not into disturbing, unneccessary violence, but how can civilized people do these things to each other???

I'm not sure about the Maedhros/Fingon thing. I don't think there's a biological reason for why that could be wrong (among Elves!). I think it's just a moral reason, like the Idril and Maeglin thing. If you grew up or knew a person a certain way, there's not really much you can do. Idril is probably the first girl Maeglin's ever seen, and well, you really can't change your first impressions. I also wouldn't think Maeglin would recognize those types of relationships living in Nan Elmoth for years.

I haven't read all the HoME, but I would think that different relationships would be defined to Elves. Elves know that they reincarnate so they have to choose who they want really carefully. Remember it's just people that interpret Elvish boundaries/idea differently.

I'd rather let you decide on what you think of the pairing though. I can't change the way people think and I can't judge beliefs of others.

I actually do know some that are quite good, but again, it's my opinion...most slash is for humor, but (oddly) I found this one that wasn't. You can try it, but only read it if you think you want to!

http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=99&SPOrdinal=1

This one's labelled as humor, same warning applies.

http://www.henneth-annun.net/stories/chapter_view.cfm?stid=3490&SPOrdinal=1

ElfmaidenofLorien

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RE: Slash
on: July 27, 2007 08:40

I am not a slash fan. And if it is slash they should always be labeled as such, because some people just don't want to read that stuff and as elbarto had an experiance with that so did I.

But I can't change peoples minds, so I won't try. Just thought I'd have my say.

[Edited on 27/7/2007 by Elioclya]

'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'

QueenPotato36_0

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RE: Slash
on: September 14, 2007 07:13

^I agree with above^
In Things That Bug Me In Fan Fiction,I already explain why I don't like slash.
I don't have a problem with homosexuality,I don't have anything against gays/lesbians,heck,I would read a good slash if it's OC,the thing that bugs me is that they turn the characters(no homosexual)in it,and it's not worthy,at least for me,that's my opinion,though;

A slash with REAL gay/lesbian characters I would read,cause it's canon(like The Simpsons,Smithers/Burns(it's the most elected) and Patty/someone(in one episode we know that she likes girls);that is a story I could read,cause it's canon(even if it's bad,I like bad fanfiction,like good one,and with Mary-Sues ).
I would also read OC slash,if an author decides to write his OWN story with his/hers OWN characters,and if he/she decides that one of them is homosexual and there is slash,fine then,it's their choice.

So thats it.OC slash and canon slash(simpsons),Ok.
LOTR slash,and other stories that their OWN author does but never suggests slash in any adventure or any character,no, Never.

Caden

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RE: Slash
on: June 27, 2011 05:02

I dont like slash much. Its just bothers me to no end, not like, annoys me, but i accidentally read some when i was very very young, like, nine or ten and i didnt understand it and when i did, it really bother me, like, upset me some. now i know ratings and how to avoid it, but sometimes when it isnt labelled and i get reading and its really good, then BAM! out fo no where, its really annoying :head shake:

~nólemë~

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RE: Slash
on: June 27, 2011 08:37

I agree that the fact that a story is, or will be, slash, should be clearly stated somewhere, whether in the summary or as genre. Just like there are informative labels for people wishing to avoid T-rated stories, romances or AUs.
I therefore trust you will enjoy the new slash genre for the CoE fanfictions. However, as this is a recent addition, it is yet waiting to be applied, so any slash stories in our archive are unlabeled. (but should have 'slash' clearly stated in their summary. If that's not the case, please contact me.)

----------

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit

MirielOfGisborne

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RE: Slash
on: January 03, 2014 07:13

First of all, a warm hello to everyone on the Fanfiction forum!

I see this thread hasn't been active in quite a while, but this is a subject that interests me greatly and I hope that you are still open to discussing it.

The truth is I discovered and joined CoE for its fanfiction section mainly. I have a passion for writing and I badly want to engage in serious discussions of it, with similarly interested people, in order to better myself. In the meantime I've realized that this is a much greater community with people I am looking forward to knowing better.

I will not beat around the bush. I write slash, and I agree with the opinion that bad slash is just that - bad, as any other type of bad fan fiction. It's bad when people twist characters and friendships into something that they are not in order to fulfill their own fantasies. That is dishonest and disrespectful of the original work. Yet, it happens, and all we can do is not read it.

I think part of the reason why there is a lot of bad fanfiction out there is that it's written mostly by people who are not professional or even amateur writers who have at least a basic understanding of good story telling and good characterization. It's written by fans, and not all of them deeply devoted fans at that. Hence, the quality of it suffers.

As for myself, I have deep love and respect for Tolkien's creation, and I have had misgivings about the kind of stories that I felt inspired to write - an alternate scenario for the Hobbit story, where Thorin survives and develops a deeper relationship of friendship, and ultimately love with Bilbo. The reason why I started writing this was that I really liked the portrayal of Thorin in the recent films and I felt frustrated with the end that Tolkien wrote for him. The character as shown in the movie has an undercurrent of goodness in him, and I wanted to explore that tender side in more detail. I wanted to grant him a second chance to be a better person, to survive his moment of redemption and go on to live the lesson that he learns from Bilbo - that life itself is more precious than gold. And, in my mind, with Bilbo himself being the catalyst for that lesson, I found him to be the right partner for Thorin, offering continuing support. They both learn from each other and change each other as characters, so I thought it would be a natural progression from friendship to something even deeper.

Anyway, at first I felt ashamed of my idea. I thought, would Tolkien hate me for doing this? Would he think I am disrespecting his characters? I was intimidated with the idea of writing after Tolkien in itself. I thought, who am I to take this brilliant man's work and write my own version of a part of it. It did feel like spoiling something sacred at first. But then I realized that it would be OK as long as I do my very best be respectful and faithful to what he created. I am doing this out of love for the characters and the world that they inhabit, not to live out my own fantasies of them.

As for same-sex pairings having or not having a place in Tolkien's world, in my own writing I try to make that more about two people sharing something meaningful and less about the gender of said people. I don't see a problem there as long as the bond between the characters is what matters most.

I would actually love to post my stories on CoE and maybe get educated feedback from the good people here on whether it is actually respectful of Tolkien's world or not. I hope I have not put you off entirely with the summary I provided.

[Edited on 01/03/2014 by MirielOfGisborne]

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LightElfRowena

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on: January 05, 2014 07:12

I remember shipping Legolas and Aragorn so hard when I was young, but now I just read them because I enjoy reading fan fiction. It doesn't matter weather it's yaoi, yuri, or whatever, I read fan fictions because I find them enjoyable.

Gandolorin

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on: January 05, 2014 08:30

To modernize something: it has happened with Shakespeare’s plays in every way thinkable, no doubt many would say unthinkable. But those are plays, he was a playwright. One of the greats, without a doubt, but still a playwright and not a novelist.

Tolkien’s races have been adapted in uncounted books about Orcs, Elves, Dwarves and whatnot. He did not invent Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, Dragons – but what I have read about them derives from Tolkien, not the Old Norse, Celtic or whatever originals.

Regarding his original characters, however, they are his alone. And he was a Catholic, a convert, and a very conservative one (a point where he and I part company strongly). Nothing we sixty years later may consider appropriate due to changes in views, often changes in prejudices, would be considered appropriate by him for his characters (for real life, this might be different, but I wouldn’t bet on it). So being respectful and faithful to what he created utterly, absolutely without any question rules out slash. I found the “Very Secret Diaries” under the humor section amusing, especially for their consistency, but pretty much off-topic (i.e. not even Tolkien-related).

[Edited on 01/07/2014 by Gandolorin]

MirielOfGisborne

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on: January 07, 2014 08:35

Thank you both for your replies.

I'm not sure I see the difference between modernizing a playwright's work and a novelist's work. It's still taking somebody else's original creation and putting a new spin on it, is it not?

I agree that Tolkien's characters are his own. That's why fan fic authors don't claim any rights on them. But there is nothing stopping people from being inspired by those characters to create new stories around them. And even if Tolkien himself had very clear moral principles, which he put into his work, I have to disagree with the view that writing something new with his characters and staying true to them absolutely excludes slash. At least not when a slash story is more about who the characters are than about their sexual orientation. That's my opinion, of course, but I think it's more important to be faithful to the substance of the characters.

My Hobbit Fanfiction

Gandolorin

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on: January 07, 2014 01:21

@MirielOfGisborne: I’ll go out on a limb and say that plays are pure allegory. As Tom Shippey notes, JRRT’s cordial dislike of allegory was for slushy allegory, while he did appreciate (and himself wrote, see “The Monsters and the Critics”) strict allegory. He also referred to Shakespeare quite often, especially “Macbeth”, but basically where he thought The Bard had muffed it (hold your hands over your ears to muffle the enraged shrieks of the Bardolators).

And he was quite firm about LotR NOT being an allegory. He differentiates between allegory (the purposed [and didactic, as C.S. Lewis mostly was] domination of the author, and applicability, residing in the freedom of the reader.

Hypothesis (NOT theory, with which it is often confused, not always innocently):

Slash is allegory.

[Edited on 01/07/2014 by Gandolorin]

MirielOfGisborne

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on: March 02, 2014 05:07

How is slash allegory?

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Gandolorin

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on: March 07, 2014 10:34

MirielOfGisborne said:How is slash allegory?

I put it as as a hypothesis, meaning "could it be that ..." and thus it is something needing proof pro or contra. As far as slash goes, you are the one with experience in the field and I am quite open to lectures to reduce my unquestionable ignorance.

(And I severely insist on the difference to theory, which has become so by (overwhelming) evidence pro - but in contrast to dogma is still open to falsification, the scientific term for new evidence that tilts toward contra.)

I also said that I was going out on a limb in stating that plays are allegory. But I feel on safer ground here with the backing of Tom Shippey. Few plays probably run four hours like the EE of RotK film. Never mind the novel. So a play has to communicate, so to speak, in shorthand. And not to forget, there are things that a play must assume the audience knows about, so hints are enough. This is what dates plays in their original form (and The Bard wrote all of his stuff 400 years or more ago).

So, I feel safe at guessing that the run-of-the-mill audience does NOT understand all of the allegorical allusions of a Shakespeare play. Probably only a few specialists at selected universities do. And with every modernized version of a play, new allegories familiar to the audiences of that particular time enter - which very likely would have The Bard and other playwrights scratching their heads in incomprehension.

My hypothesis placing slash in the category of allegory derives from precisely this taking something older and changing the viewpoint on it in a way that would have had the original author scratching his head as much as the playwrights above.

Though my suspicion remains that Tolkien would not have been satisfied with scratching his head - his abilities for somewhat disguised verbal broadsides are well documented (see "The Monsters And The Critics" and "Valedictory Address."

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