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pv
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Post What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 16, 2005 10:39
I was just reading your very interesting thread on slash here, and in it, a lot of people said that the level of writing is more important than the territory covered.
Fan fiction is, for the most part, written by inexperienced writers. Taking this fact into account, what makes the better ones better?
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Elioclya
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 17, 2005 12:46
I would actually disagree that it's about the level of writing. There are an awful lot fanfics out there with very bad spelling/grammar/punctuation and language in general, so unless 'level of writing' refers to something else I'm sure it's not that! I think a good fanfic just needs one simple thing - an interesting plot, or a slightly different twist on one of those plots that goes round again and again, like random-person-in-Middle-Earth ones (guilty!) etc. I know that some of the ones I've been completely engrossed in are often not in a high standard of English (which, as an English student, does really annoy me at times). I think that a lot of plot lines however are good enough to make me look past it, and that's a mark of true genius! The very best are the ones which are also written really well of course, but I think the very genre of fanfic often defies that.
j_mercuryuk
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 17, 2005 03:50
I think the type of writing is important. I've read fic (well started reading fics) which seem to have great plots, but they don't understand that fanfiction writing is a different tecnique to writing a novel. The fic I'm thinking of just seemed to drag on and on. One chapter was the lenght of 1/2 a short stroy !! You don't want to still at a computer reading something the drags on. It needs to hold you attention.
Gary stuifing charaters tends to turn me off. I there and cringe, but I've looked past it before in favour of a good plot and good story telling.
Elioclya
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 17, 2005 06:45
That's an interesting take on it - I think I have a completely different point of view though! I actually prefer it when the stories are long and detailed; although I can appreciate the quicker kinds of story, I don't think that they are the definition of fanfic. I think fanfics can have a much broader meaning, and as such cover all kinds - from vignettes to novel-style. For me they all have merit at different levels, and just because something's long doesn't mean it won't hold your attention. It might be better in those cases to actually print off the story, but I don't think that detracts from it qualifying as a good fanfic.

As for Gary Stus and Mary Sues, they can be irritating, but I'm not as much against them as a lot of people. I don't think stories always need to be realistic. Sometimes it goes too far, but a lot of the time I see it as a bit of harmless fun. It's quite often just an author's way of starting off in the world of fanfic!
LinweSingollo
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 17, 2005 02:29
I like detail in stories, but some authors get too carried away with larding their story with tons of detail. (Probably the more creative people) I like some things left to my imagination and I find it tends to slow down the action too much.

I'm currently reading a very long fan-fic which, for the most part, is quite good. However, some chapters meander without going anywhere or really adding anything to the overall story --- I suspect the authors (this one's written by two people) are indulging themselves with their favorite character. I can easily forgive that, though because...hey...I understand and the overall plot is very good.

Generally, stories with a high quality of writing that delve deeply into a character's personality and motives grabs my attention.

In general, I don't like slash, but I read a few that were so well-written, that I was drawn into them in spite of myself.
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9digithobbit
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 17, 2005 10:42
To me, a lot of things make the good fics good. Good writing is important to me, both in mechanics and style; poor mechanics can be so jarring that I can't enjoy the story (although of course I forgive an error or two here and there- we all make them!) and bad style just makes for lousy writing. Other than that, good characterization and canon accuracy (even in an AU, you have to know how it was before you can change it!), a plot that makes sense and flows well, adequate levels of description for the story, I consider all of these pretty essential. Good characterizations are particularly important, as so much of what can be done with fic (or any story, for that matter) has to do with how the characters think and feel. It doesn't even have to be the same as I see the character, as long as it makes sense. As to what makes a fic interesting, it is always so nice to see new ideas, new takes on characters and situations from canon. I dislike seeing the same stories over and over again, written in different words, and I'm not quite sure why that happens. Tolkien's universe is big enough that there's room to take some risks and go someplace new with the material. Not everyone will like the different view, but at least it isn't boring.
RavenLady
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 18, 2005 12:50
I mostly just read fanfiction, but I'll give it a shot.

I'm picky about stories that deviate from canon. I think the important thing is that the author has a reason to use an AU element, even a minor one. It has to feel like it matters, or what's the point of an AU? I usually stick to canon fics, but I've read stories with good OCs, good uncanonical pairings with canon characters (both slash and het - I've always wondered why there's so little unconventional het out there compared to the popular slash, but some of the things people come up with amaze me) and stories with interesting premises that change an element of the original plot to make a point. And I prefer short AU fics, for some reason, not the major earthshattering kind, because the latter tend to leave plot threads hanging, lose logic and/or get unrecognizable as fanfic at some point. As for AU in humor fics, well, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's refreshing to see in-character, in-canon humor just once in a while, or short of that, a slightly uncanonical characterization that's still an interesting one.

Speaking of humor fics, the completely absurd kind can work if it's well written and based on an idea that hasn't been used a gazillion times. But once in a while a humorous story comes along where the characters have to face things that aren't so absurd, and the humor is just in how the story is written. It's a nice change. (For instance, one of my favorite humor fics ever has the main characters trying to figure out how to deal with blackmail. There's humor, suspense and a bit of angst all in the same fic. And romance too - talk about a wide range.)

About having a good plot and characters: well, if you're going to use a plot, it should hold together. But I like short character-based stories too; those kind don't need a plot. And I love well-done short pieces, like drabbles, which are technically supposed to be exactly a hundred words, but there are other good pieces out there which are longer than drabbles but too short for short stories. Drabbles are like haiku: a simple form used a lot by people who aren't used to writing and start out thinking it's easier than it is. (Guilty.) It's done really well once in a while, though. Having said that, there are some long, novel-length fics that I love. Sometimes even these ones are character focused. In Silmarillion fanfiction, people work with characters who are just barely sketched and a prety much set plot, so there's room for the kind of personal stories I like, even when they are novel-length. (I find these in LotR fic too, just not so often.)

[Edited on 18/11/2005 by RavenLady]
j_mercuryuk
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 23, 2005 01:40
That's an interesting take on it - I think I have a completely different point of view though! I actually prefer it when the stories are long and detailed; although I can appreciate the quicker kinds of story, I don't think that they are the definition of fanfic. I think fanfics can have a much broader meaning, and as such cover all kinds - from vignettes to novel-style. For me they all have merit at different levels, and just because something's long doesn't mean it won't hold your attention. It might be better in those cases to actually print off the story, but I don't think that detracts from it qualifying as a good fanfic.

As for Gary Stus and Mary Sues, they can be irritating, but I'm not as much against them as a lot of people. I don't think stories always need to be realistic. Sometimes it goes too far, but a lot of the time I see it as a bit of harmless fun. It's quite often just an author's way of starting off in the world of fanfic!


I see what you mean. I suppose a beeter way of saying what I mean is:
You can't really compare a detailed story to a non-detailed one. But for detailed story; there is a thin line between a good detailed story (anything by Nili, a great writer of fanfics) and a long winded over detailed story with silly long-winded details about stuff I really couldn't care less about.

I just find Gary stus and mary sues cheesy. If people want to read them then their welcome, but I find it hard to read a fic where all the animals love legolas and they all come to see him and talk to him (and do ANYTHING to protect him). Not only that but legolas has special powers for such a young elf and EVERYONE loves. If they don't then they're a bad person.

[Edited on 23/11/2005 by j_mercuryuk]
Elioclya
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: November 23, 2005 02:05
Hehe, I know... things like that are very silly, but they're kinda fun once in a while!

And I do agree with you about the details to be honest
pitya
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: May 09, 2006 02:17
Personally, I've run in to very few poorly-written stories that work out. One or two I've found have genuinely amazing concepts or characters, and that entirely outways any mistakes they may have made, but that's rare.

I must confess I'm a bit of a pet peeve person--i.e., I can't stand MarySue/GaryStus, AUs so far off that the only thing tying it to Tolkien are the names, PWP, hobbits that run around with daisies in their hair, and beautiful elf women who have a faithful steed that follows them around everywhere and know their every thought. (sorry, I'm a bit bitter) I appreciate the diversity that AUs bring, new ideas and situations, so long as they fit in the fabric of Tolkien's writing and don't make characters so different you have to look twice.

Plot/Character-wise, I think the best fics are the ones that make both work together. Strong characters as well as a plot that will keep your attention (preferably a new idea, not the same old Sam and Frodo off to Mount Doom, though those have merit, too). The stronger the character drives the plot, the more inclined I am to accept the plot, and the more the plot molds the character, the more inclined I am to accept the character.

The funniest Mary Sue I've ever read was one that made fun of itself--Mary Sue (charming, pleasant, and beautiful) went through a timewarp to save Sauron because he really was a good person at heart and had just been tormented and torn by the pain of this world. Sauron laughed, and fed her to his wargs.
pv
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: May 27, 2006 07:01
He fed her to his wargs? Aaaaargh! I prefer happy endings.
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pitya
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: June 18, 2006 10:28
The Mary Sue was so herself, it was a happy ending.
Dreamdeer
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: July 01, 2006 04:00
For me, fidelity to character matters more than any other aspect of canon. AU is fine, so long as the characters behave as they really would have had the situation changed. If you're going to give me a gay Pippin, make it really Pippin, and not just some kid from Anytown USA hitchhiking to the Middle-Earth version of San Francisco, shrunk and disguised with furry feet.

Even if it's a completely different interpretation of a character from anything I imagined, if you make it plausible, I will eat it up. One of my favorite 4th-age fanfics introduced me to an obsessive-compulsive Faramir that made more sense the more I read--not at all how I originally pictured the man, but every move he makes clearly traces back to everything we know about Faramir from Tolkien's work. In contrast, some writers mold Legolas into whatever their fantasy-lover might be, without any consideration for the psychology of elves, let alone the established traits of the individual character.

I do not want to simply think, "Yep, that is a pseudomedieval grandmother who happens to be named Eowyn," I want to read your work and say, "Wow--that is exactly what Eowyn would be like as a grandmother!"
schweinsty
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: October 02, 2006 10:32
I have to agree with Dreamdeer. Making sure that the characters stay in character is, to me, the most important thing a fic writer can do. Unless it is a parody, I do not want to see Legolas turned into a wimpy playboy, Aragorn being a womanizing idiot, or Arwen becoming a demonic hussy over night.

I also do not want to see female characters who, though entirely bereft of common courtesy and common sense, appear incredibly appealing to the main characters due to their inner charm, nonconformist free-spiritedness, and long locks of raven black hair that never tangles, no matter how long she snuggles up in an anachronistic sleeping bag with *insert male character* outside on the ground (or in a tree...) during bad weather. In short, I'm not that fond of Mary Sues, either. Well, some I can stand, if the story has redeeming qualities and her name is semi-pronounceable. After all, I was writing Mary Sues myself ten years ago...and still have to work to avoid them, at times.

Lastly, though it isn't always the case, I've found that there's a rather strong correlation between badly written characters, Mary Sues, and grammar mistakes/story structure. Honestly, if a story starts out with "Silyanumiera Elizabeth Dragonslayer smoothed back her raven black hair and looked in the mirror in front of her with her huge purple eyes and wished she weren't so beautiful or that she had someone to rescue her from the suitors her evil father was forcing on her," are you really surprised when the author devolves into OMG!!!'s and shows little, if any respect for the generally accepted rules of punctuation and orthography? I know I'm not.

Well, that's been a really long post. Hope I didn't insult anyone; that wasn't my intention. And I really can say I've read stories with what many would call Mary Sues that I really enjoyed.

[Edited on 2/10/2006 by schweinsty]
Rulea
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: February 08, 2007 02:40
Suspension and action.
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Rulea
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: March 28, 2008 03:34
A good plot and romance.
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Dreamdeer
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: March 29, 2008 07:02
More and more I find that I want the element of Faerie in there somewhere.
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Post RE: What makes fan fiction good?
on: July 09, 2011 06:29
The story needs to have realistic effects on the characters. When bad stuff happens, do you think the Hobbits would take a stand or think about suicide? Or when faced with a Balrog, do you think Legolas would fight to the death or flee? The effect your tale has on your characters is one of the most important and interesting things about your fic. If it isn't done right, the consequences are not desirable.

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calenmarwen
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on: July 31, 2013 06:19
I would say: a fair amount of originality, good use of language and correct formatting, evidence of thought having been given to the story.
Good plot development, writing in character, and seeming slightly reminiscent of the original world also helps, I think.
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findemaxam48
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on: July 31, 2013 12:37
For sure, a good plot Thats the basis to all writing, I think. The original world that the setting is should not be altered very much, either, because you want the fanfic to be similar to the actual works.
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MirielOfGisborne
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on: March 05, 2014 05:22
Very informative thread!

For me, good fan fiction has to build on the original, not disregard it, even if it's an AU story. As fans, I think we are drawn to writing fan fiction - or at least I am - because we love the original universe, we feel akin to it and we want to explore it further, so it stands to reason that we would write within the limits of the universe. I also think that good fan fiction does more than retell canon. It has to tell something new about the characters, explore a side of them that has been suggested but not revealed in depth by canon. But even if a fan fic author presents a hidden side of a character, that character still to retain its personality and features given by their original creator in order to be believable.

So, basically, respecting canon timelines and character backgrounds is important. At the same time, I believe fan fic is a way to build on it and test possibilities.
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