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Ereinion
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Post Arvedui Last-King
on: November 10, 2008 02:48
In Appendix A, it mentions how Malbeth the seer named Arvedui, saying "Arvedui you shall call him, for he will be the last in Arthedain. Though a choice will come to the Dunedain, and if they take the one that seems less hopeful, then your son will change his name and become king of a great realm. If not, then much sorrow and many lives of men shall pass, until the Dunedain arise and are united again."

What was the choice? I assume that they took the hopeful one, as Arvedui never changed his name, but I can't find any information as to what it actually was.

[Edited on 10/11/2008 by Ereinion]
nimloth_ithilien
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: November 10, 2008 11:18
Maybe the "great realm" means both Arnor and Gondor.
Arvedui did not press his claim; for he had neither the power nor the will to oppose the choice of the Dunedain of Gondor;

My first thought to what the "less hopeful" choice was, was for Arvedui to "oppose the choice of the Dunedain", and to take the crown of Gondor. It says later in Appendix A,
It may be that if the crown and the sceptre had been united, then the kingship would have been maintained and much evil averted.

and the prophecy says,
If not, then much sorrow and many lives of men shall pass, until the Dunedain arise and are united again.



[Edited on 11/11/2008 by nimloth_ithilien]
Erucenindë
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: November 11, 2008 03:55
hmm..wow, i never realized this. this is very interesting.

though i have to say, Aranath forsook his role as king and became the first chieftan of the Dunedain,(which i beleive is the line Aragorn came from) because he had no kingdom to rule...how would he have been able to rule Gondor? wouldn't Gondor at this point already had another king and his line? because they had been divided earlier?
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: November 11, 2008 06:21
If you remember, the situation in Gondor at that time was that, King Ondoher and his both sons had fallen in battle, and neither of the sons left an heir. If the Gondorians had accepted Arvedui's claim, he and Aranarth after him would have become King of both Gondor and Arnor. Instead, they gave the crown to Eärnil, who was of the royal line, but descendant of a former king's younger brother. His son after him also died childless, and the Stewards took over.
Erucenindë
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: November 11, 2008 07:03
ah...i see.

but that still makes you wonder why Aranath refused the crown? hmm......*thinks*
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: November 11, 2008 08:07
On the death of Ondohir and his sons Arvedui put in his claim to be King of Gondor, as no closer male heir could be found. There seems to have been an interregnum of about 18 years overseen by a Steward, after which Earnil was chosen as King. When Arvedui was drowned, his claim lapsed, being a personal claim, and not a right of inheritance.

The Northern Kingdom at this point had little to offer Gondor by way of human or material resources, having been decimated by Angmar. So Arvedui's sons did not enter claim, but concentrated on keeping the remnants of their people together pending a day in the future when their heirs might have the strength, and command the loyalty, to be accepted in Gondor.

That's why Aragorn had to work so hard for it.
Erucenindë
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: November 11, 2008 08:54
yes, that would make sense.
Hanasian
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: September 06, 2010 09:17
Part of Arvedui's claim was that he was also married to King Ondoher's only surviving descendant, Firiel. And King Earnil was established well before Arvedui drowned in the bay of Forochel, for he send his son Earnur with a fleet and an army to aid Arvedui, but they came too late.
Eighth King of Arthedain - It was in battle that I come into this Kingship, and it will be in Battle when I leave it. There is no peace for the Realm of Arnor. Read the last stand of Arthedain in the Darkest of Days.
Cressida
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Post RE: Arvedui Last-King
on: October 11, 2010 07:13
Heh, when I first read the book, I assumed that it referred to Arvedui's choice of whether to stay with the snow-men at Forochel for the winter or try to sail back. But most people seem to interpret it as referring to the choice of the council of Gondor.
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