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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 05, 2009 04:22
1) In this chapter it becomes clear that light is very important and is more than just a source of illumination. What qualities does Tolkien give to light that makes it more than just bundles of photons? Why replace the Lamps with trees?

2) Melkor's character seems to more one-sided here than in the previous chapters. What has he become? How do the rest of the Valar react to his actions. Why don't they do more?

3)(from the archive- suggested by Figwit) Tulkas is presented as a powerful enemy to Melkor, why? Why does he arrive later than the other Valar?
curufinwefeanor13
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 05, 2009 04:59
1)The light seems to be the enemy of Melkor. Melkor love darkness, or at least dwells in it, so the light could be seen as a guardian from the evil of Melkor. The Valar replaced the Lamps with the Trees because Varda and Aulë and Manwë had already tried to bring light to the Arda, and Yavanna decided she wanted to try. The Lamps were more of Aulë's talent and the Trees were Yavanna's talent. I wonder why they always have two lights.

2)In this chapter Melkor has gone fully to the "dark side". The rest of the Valar seem to think he will just go away.

3)Tulkas is the strongest of the Valar. Melkor fears him cause in war Tulkas is happy and joyful and I bet Melkor must hate that. Tulkas arrives when the Valar are intheir utmost need.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 06, 2009 08:50
3)Tulkas is presented as a powerful enemy to Melkor, why? Why does he arrive later than the other Valar?
I see it as Tulkas being sent by Iluvatar himself to aid the Valar. Why not send him in the first place with the rest of the Valar is a bit of a mystery - though I'm sure Tolkien came up with a good reason for it - it just needs some thought ... maybe i'll be able to come round it ...
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Calamornië
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 06, 2009 10:16
2) Melkor's character seems to more one-sided here than in the previous chapters. What has he become? How do the rest of the Valar react to his actions? Why don't they do more?
At this point Melkor has coveted the light so much, and since he couldn't possess all of it, left the light and possessed all the darkness. When he invades Arda the Valar try to fight him, but he tears their beautiful handiwork apart so they devote so much energy to keeping it intact that they can't capture him. Later on they refuse to go after him because they don't want to risk ruining what's left of Arda and giving nothing to the Children of Ilúvatar. (Yavanna, though, seems to be of the opinion after she comes back from Middle-earth that they need to take Melkor down because he's destroying all the green there.)
oiotari
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 06, 2009 11:01
3. Tulkas is presented as a powerful enemy to Melkor, why? Why does he arrive later than the other Valar?
Tulkas loves contests of strength and fighting. So perhaps he wasn't quite as interested in entering into the world until there was an opportunity or need for him to use his skill, he couldn't resist fighting against Melkor.
Or, going with what Ilandir was saying, possibly Iluvatar sent him to aid the Valar, but didn't send him earlier just because his entry wouldn't shock Melkor like it did if he had just arrived with the rest of the Valar.
Tulkas would be a more opposing enemy to Melkor because they are so completely opposite: Melkor is now dark and oppressing while Tulkas is lighthearted and is described as golden. Melkor may have been bothered by how Tulkas seemed to happy and didn't seem to take him seriously
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 06, 2009 11:20
2) It seems to me that Melkor is now being childishly bad just for the sake of being bad. He can't get what he wants so he's spending all of his time, like an unhappy young child, breaking everybody else's stuff. He seems not be interested in any material gain anymore, he just wants to ruin things for everyone else.
Celebrian
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 06, 2009 03:00
1) In this chapter it becomes clear that light is very important and is more than just a source of illumination. What qualities does Tolkien give to light that makes it more than just bundles of photons? Why replace the Lamps with trees?

Light is the basis of Enlightenment. It seems to be vital to joy and understanding for living things. Even Melkor coveted light, in spite of the fact that he also hated it. I think it was said that once the lamps were made they, like the trees, could not be made again. Also, the trees were living things; living light, if you will. That made them very special and precious to all the Valar.


2) Melkor's character seems to more one-sided here than in the previous chapters. What has he become? How do the rest of the Valar react to his actions. Why don't they do more?

He has squandered away a lot of his essence by instilling so much of it in his minions. There is little left of him now but malice and hatred.

3)(from the archive- suggested by Figwit) Tulkas is presented as a powerful enemy to Melkor, why? Why does he arrive later than the other Valar?

As has been said by others, Tulkas is the exact opposite of Melkor. He is happiness by nature, even when engaged in battle. He came late because he doesn't seem to have had much interest in Arda until he heard "in the far heaven that there was battle in the Little Kingdom..." (personally, I've wondered just what and where that far heaven was and what went on there!)
Elanor_the_elf
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 07, 2009 05:12
1) The lamps were replaced with trees in a really protected place for the time being. The light to me is a symbol of hope and sort of...the opposite of Melkor who is always bringing darkness and despises light. It's almost a way of keeping him away.

2) Melkor here really becomes the big baddie. He wants to destroy everything (sounds like a jealous guy or that girl off of Fruits Basket that hates things that are perfectly organized/pretty xD). The Valar react by trying to save all that they can then just leave him be and go to another part of the world. They would've done more but it said that they were exhausted from making the Spring and they didn't have enough of their previous strength to challenge him.

3) Tulkas comes across as some kind of always happy perky kinda guy, especially as he comes in laughing. I think it really is stark contrast to Melkor's darkness and just...'grrrr' kinda attitude that he shows. Also, Tulkas is physically strong and i guess that makes it easy for him to restrain Melkor. I'm not sure why he arrives later but I think i would agree that he wasn't interested until he heard of a battle. He was after all in love with contests of strength and always wanting to show off xD.

For the record i didn't read much of the other's replies so i might be repeating them. I'm trying to think of a question but i'm drawing a blank so if i think of one i'll revise my post...
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 10, 2009 05:11
1) In this chapter it becomes clear that light is very important and is more than just a source of illumination. What qualities does Tolkien give to light that makes it more than just bundles of photons? Why replace the Lamps with trees?

Light is presented as having its source in Ilúvatar. The Imperishable Flame is at the core of his being and with it he kindles all that he makes. So it is not only visible light, but also his special Grace. The Imperishable Flame is set to burn in the heart of Ea (the created World), but even before creation it was used to kindle the Ainur and give them Free Will, just as it later gives Free Will to the sentient inhabitants of Middle Earth.

I have no idea why the lamps should be replaced by trees. Neither lamps nor trees seem a good idea to me. They are very pretty I’m sure, but seem more a symbol of naïveté in the Valar, and their tendency to see Arda as a playground.

2) Melkor's character seems to be more one-sided here than in the previous chapters. What has he become? How do the rest of the Valar react to his actions. Why don't they do more?

Melkor is still convinced that the Imperishable Flame is something he can find and possess for himself, and set himself up even over Ilúvatar. Foolishly, he searches for it in the Void, wilfully blind to the fact that it is a part of Ilúvatar, and that his own Free Will was kindled by it, as a loving gift of his creator. Melkor chooses (using that same Free Will) to believe the Flame is being withheld from him and in rage he sets out to overturn all that Ilúvatar has made possible. Thus he becomes Morgoth and is bound to his own darkness.

Sadly, the Valar are unprepared to face up to Melkor, so they build themselves a refuge, call up a light-source for it that is firmly rooted to the ground, and leave the Hither Lands in darkness. Some of the Valar doubt that this is the right course, but though Varda lights a few stars, the others do nothing except visit.

3)(from the archive- suggested by Figwit) Tulkas is presented as a powerful enemy to Melkor, why? Why does he arrive later than the other Valar?

Tulkas is Mr Fixit for the Melkor problem. Melkor can’t wind him up. Tulkas just laughs. “OK you wanna fight? That’s cool!” SMACK!! He seems to be the only one prepared to take on Melkor’s creatures and because he just laughs, he doesn’t give Melkor the satisfaction of seeming upset.

I think Tulkas was a late volunteer for Valarhood, because Arda needed someone with a bit more b***s.
lizandroll_the_troll
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Post RE: Quenta Silmarillion I Of The Beginning of Days
on: July 10, 2009 05:14
2) Melkor has definitely become a one-dimensional character. He is now the embodiment of evil. Before, he was seeking glory and greater/equal stature with Iluvatar. But he begins to realize that this attempt is futile. Now his deep, bitter hate has poisoned his soul so deeply that destruction is now all he can create. Destruction is his one single goal.

An image of this twisting could be Gollum, or Sauron, who began as an image of light and even tried to reverse the wrongs of the world before he became a power-addict.
agent
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on: July 25, 2013 06:21
1) I think the light here means life - the Imperishable Flame lies in the heart of everything and all the growing things arose only when the lamps were lit. Replacing the lamps with the trees can mean making this connection between light and life even stronger - the living light, the light that lives is the light of the trees. I like the idea of the trees, it is so beautiful when you imagine them, and I also tend to think that the original shaping of the world with pillars was somehow not exactly right, that it was just a touchstone that needed to be changed into something more true.

3) Tulkas can be a late volunteer for Varda because of Melkor - there could be so much fun for him in chasing Melkor! He appeared only when that chance for him to show his strenth and throw away all the injustice brought by Melcor showed up.
Neenime
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on: March 14, 2015 09:12
1) Light qualities - I think that light might be a metaphor for grace or the Life force here, something akin to a spark of the Divine. Melkor has the capacity for it, but it is eclipsed by his ego - wanting things his way and for himself, at the expense of others. He cannot seem to balance his considerable power with a sense of responsibility for how he uses that power in relationship to the needs and powers of others.

I believe that Tolkien, having lived through the dark days of war and having lost both parents, might have had a strong sense of how humans need each other on order to survive and thrive.

So, light, as Light, might be that Divine spark of goodness that the characters have the capacity to use, if they so choose. In trees and n the environment it is disembodied, but still comes from the source of all.
“Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I have found. I have found that it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love. " Gandalf
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