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curufinwefeanor13
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Post Werewolves
on: August 14, 2009 01:02
Werewolves were mentioned in the Sil and in the LOTR, but they never show. What are they? Are they werewolves like in folklore, wolves that walk like men, or just intelligent and giant wolves like Draugrim?
starofdunedain
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: August 14, 2009 05:49
I've wondered that too, I think Beren transforms into a werewolf when he and Luthien steal a Silmaril from Morgoth. Maybe werewolves are people that have been bitten by the wolves corrupted by Morgoth? Just a theory.
Iavas87
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: August 15, 2009 06:23
As I always understood it, werewolves were just fallen Maiar that took the form of wolves.
El-Tazrín
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: August 15, 2009 09:12
What happened when the fallen Maiar bit people ? Did they become like the Werewolves we know today?
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: August 15, 2009 10:07
Old English:
wer = man
wulf = wolf

a man-wolf; defined as a man who can change himself into a wolf for short periods, but under his own control. So it's a limited form of shape-shifting. Later in fiction it developed into a kind of sickness that came upon a man at full moon. I think Tolkien uses it in its original shamanic sense.
Ilandir
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: August 15, 2009 11:32
Taking cirdaneth's point, they might have been similar to Beorn's bear shape-shifting capabilities.
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cirdaneth
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: August 16, 2009 04:22
Thanks Ilandir! That's exactly what I was thinking.

(all Beorn comments to the Beorn thread, please folks)
Ereinion
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: September 21, 2009 04:22
I'm not sure that werewolves are shapeshifters at all. Neither Draugluin nor Carcharoth, the two most famous werewolves, are ever mentioned as taking on the form of a man. Sauron is mentioned as having taken on the form of a werewolf for his battle with Huan, which implies that a werewolf is not, in and of itself, a shapeshifter (like how you would say that Beorn takes on the shape of a bear, but bears are not shapeshifters, to use an example). David Day's "Guide to Tolkien's World" further states on the subject of werewolves that they were a "race of tortured spirits who were thralls of Melkor [... that] entered the forms of Wolves by sorcery."
~nólemë~
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: September 05, 2010 11:17
Ereinion, it doesn't seem anyone implied that JRRT's werewolves are necessarily shapeshifters There are examples in the canon of Maiar, or spirits if you wish, who don't, or at least aren't known to, leave their forms. Manwë's eagles or Ents are some of them. I have no quote at hand to support it, but I imagine many spirits who assume a shape of an animal or plant bind themselves to that form, whether of their own will or on the wish of a higher authority. I don't think it was impossible for Morgoth to confine some of his spirit minions to their werewolf form. So perhaps they have the ability to do shapeshifting, but just don't wish to, or aren't allowed to, employ it?
The quote you use doesn't negate this possibility
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Werewolves
on: September 06, 2010 06:10
The Tolkien concept of a werewolf may be quite different from the acepted historical idea, in much the same way as his representation of elves, kings, trolls, and the earth itself are different.

The "wer" element of the word is the Old English word for "man" and a werewolf was originally defined as a man who becomes wolf, usually under specific circumstances, (most popularly at full moon). However, it is not certain that Tolkien used it in this sense, being, in his alternative world, free to use it in any sense he chose.

Shape-shifters on the other hand tend to change at will, either through some inborn skill or long magical training, sometimes both. Presumably Luthien falls into this category. I don't kow how old the term "shape-shifter" is but it may be quite modern.
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