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Ashbrook
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Post The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 03, 2010 04:18
So I'm watching RoTK right now, and I've always asked myself this question. I know you think this may belongi n the movie section, but really the question I have pertains to the books. I may be overthinking here, but the tenders of the beacons seem awfully isolated on the white mountains. How do they acquire food and proper goods? Does Tolkien ever touch on this subject?

Thanks.
Erucenindë
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 03, 2010 06:20
I've always wondered this myself... I just assumed that regular shipments would come in...

interested to know what others say.
Ashbrook
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 03, 2010 06:44
Yes, but how would these "shipments" arrive is what I'm wondering, haha.
Hîr_i_Chorvath
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 04, 2010 10:36
Isolated, but 'only' a few day's ride from either Gondor or Rohan - remembering that Gandalf (well yes, he did have shadowfax) made it in three from one to the other. So I think that they would have (this is speculation) shifts of a week, maybe two, and (looking back at the journeys of the fellowship) it would be 'simple' to have enough provisions for that time. If not, at 'only' a few day's ride, provisions could be ferried in to them.
That seems the most plausible situation to my mind.
Chocolatequeen
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 09, 2010 10:24
To complicate the question slightly, there had to be more than one person at each beacon. Someone has to be awake and watching at all hours of the day--that requires 4-6 people, minimum. At this point, you're starting to look at a very small military outpost rather than simply a pyre and a hut. There needs to be a room for the men to sleep in and most likely another room for cooking/living. Once you've got that much space, it's not difficult to imagine that they've got a cupboard full of the Middle-earth versions of hardtack and pemmican. Plus, these are soldiers. Surely they can kill a bird or a rabbit to cook for dinner.

Dagnabit! Now I want to write a treatise on the food rations of Gondor's military. What have you people done to me??
cirdaneth
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 08, 2011 03:32
This should be of interest http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/beacon_fires.htm
LadyBeruthiel
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 16, 2011 09:36
Cool site, cirdaneth. I like it that there's a Buckland beacon, although I believe the Bucklanders in the Shire preferred to use a horn as a signal.
cirdaneth
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 17, 2011 02:06
I noticed that too, LadyB. Gives this UK hobbit a warm glow.
Ereinion
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: January 27, 2011 06:50
In the books, they are described as being located on "outlying hills" and that there were "posts at these points where fresh horses were always in readiness to bear his errand-riders to Rohan in the North, or to Belfalas in the South."
So the beacons were, at the very least, located at places where horses could reach.
Celebrian
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: March 11, 2011 04:54
It wouldn't make sense in dangerous times to strand three or four men in a remote area. I always imagined something like a small Army Post or maybe even a tiny village located reasonably close to the Beacons. They would need regular supplies, stables and people to manage them. And, certainly an alehouse or two. Maybe even a few family huts. It would make sense, really. A troop of men who are reasonably comfortable, well fed and happy would be more likely to be vigilant in their duties than a few who were stuck shivering on the side of a mountain chewing on jerky for months on end.
asea_aranion
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: July 26, 2011 03:43
I'm glad that there's a topic for this. It never made sense to me as I saw it in the movie - beacons on the very tops of snow-covered mountains with no discernable lodgings in view. And Celebrian makes a good point - if you only have a few men at the outpost, that's going to make it very succeptible to attack, which would be pretty dangerous at a time where it might be necessary to use the beacons to deliver a very important message.

Actually, that raises an interesting thought... even if it was a small village or outpost, and even if it was armed with a number of soldiers, it probably wouldn't be prepared to withstand any sort of sizeable siege... if Sauron wanted to cut off aid to Gondor, why not cut off their method of signaling it? (Granted, they still had the rider they sent to Rohan as well...)

[Edited on 26/7/2011 by asea_aranion]
tarcolan
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: July 26, 2011 12:58
I don't think sudden attacks would be a problem. Not only are beacons on a high place with good views of the approaches but they would only be manned in times of war. If an attack force was approaching they would simply light the beacon thus foiling the surprise. The meaning of the beacons would have to be agreed beforehand and verified by a messenger. In the book he carried the token of the red arrow but didn't get to deliver the answer, thus compounding Denethor's despair. No doubt Rohan could use the signal in the other direction to call for aid.

In Britain the beacons were lit in the 1970s to celebrate a royal anniversary (silver jubilee was it?) from Land's End to Inverness. It didn't work because of the weather, which just goes to show their limited usefulness. If it had it would only have taken half an hour or so. I can't imagine the beacons of Gondor ever working in fact, mountains being often shrouded in clouds, so they were not relied on. Nice idea though and a brilliant sequence in the film.
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asea_aranion
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: July 29, 2011 11:12
I'd imagine that they wouldn't actually be on the high up snow-covered peaks that we saw in the film. How on earth would they keep the wood dry? Hahaha.

You make a good point that in the event of a surprise attack, they could always just go ahead and light the beacon, though I suppose once they're all lit you might not realize that one in the middle is where they need help.

I can see the usefulness of the beacons, but as we've seen in this discussion, there are quite a few practicality issues to take into account... Haha.
cirdaneth
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: July 29, 2011 09:27
This is a useful link. Note particularly that one of the beacons is called Buckland. This should be of interest http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/beacon_fires.htm
MallornHugger
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: September 01, 2011 02:51
Some of the beacons may have had larger stores of food than some others, and the ones that are halfway between Gondor and Rohan would be able to quickly ride over to these other beacons, store up, and ride back. This would also allow for the quick trading of news and information. Also, if you look closely enough, when it shows a closer shot of a beacon being lit in the mountains, you can see the people (there's at least two in the shot), you can see the beacon, but you can also see a sort of cottage, well that's what I assume it is. It looks sort of like a mound, but it could possibly be a kind of storage space or somewhere where the beacon lighters could sleep. The men also may have been able to hunt for food within the mountains, or just a short distance away. There would probably be some species of rabbit or mountain goat living within Middle-earth's mountains.

Also, if you watch the extended edition of the Return of the King, with cast commentary on, Bernard Hill (Theoden) is commentating when the beacons are being lit. He starts to talk about how everyone in the cast made up a theory that it was a sort of honor to be a beacon lighter, and how they stayed in the mountains for generations. It's not accurate, but it's quite entertaining!
asea_aranion
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: September 06, 2011 10:14
I thought Bernard Hill's commentary on the matter was very funny. I think in the film, some of the beacons were placed solely for the purpose of it being a really cool shot, not necessarily because that's what it would have looked like... if the beacons are above the clouds, who would ever see? Haha.
MallornHugger
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Post RE: The Beacons of Gondor
on: September 07, 2011 10:35
Yeah, they were probably put on the top of the mountain for the movie, OR it could of been a really cloudy day. But it was probably the former.

I was reading the chapter on Eorl and Cirion in the Unfinished Tales today, and I came across this passage concerning one of beacons, Halifirien: "The Beacon-wardens were the only inhabitants of the Wood...they housed in lodges in the trees near the summit, but they did not stay there long, unless held there by foul weather, but they did not stay long, and they came and went in turns of duty."

So most of the beacons must have been manned by different men throughout the year, with them probably exchanging duties from possibly a couple of weeks to several months.
Hanasian
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Post Two Lines of Beacons?
on: May 28, 2023 10:07
Something lost in the films when it comes to the Beacons of Gondor is the fact the beacons were located on lower hills to the north of the White Mountains, not on the mountain peaks. As mentioned by others in this thread, the logistics of such garrisons would be near impossible to maintain constantly. That and a beacon on top of a mountain peak would have a chance to not be seen should the mountains be shrouded in cloud ( as commonly happens). This entry on the Beacons of Gondor in the Encyclopedia of Arda shows the string of hills to the north of the White Mountains. They would most likely be accessible by horse and cart for supply, and low enough to avoid most cloud cover.

I find it interesting that the Encyclopedia of Arda mentions two strings of beacons. This northern string that we know of, but also a southern string to alert the coastal provinces. The entry doesn't elaborate on the southern beacons or even mention in the notes where this reference comes from, but it sure got me interested.

A further note on the beacons... they were likely built before 2510 so their purpose was to alert the far-reaching lands of Gondor. The lands of Rohasn weren't given over to the Éothéod until 2510 after they rode south led by Eorl the Young and bailed Gondor out. Steward Cirion gifted Calenardhon, the far west sparsely-populated province of Gondor, to Eorl in honor of their service and thus creating the long-standing alliance between Rohan and Gondor. The actual method of signaling between Gondor and Rohan was the Red Arrow
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