Welcome Guest 

Register

Author Topic:
SilmarilEyes
Council Member
Posts: 11
Send Message
Avatar
Post Elf vs Half Elf
on: July 15, 2010 08:59
Is there any difference? I mean Elrond is half-elven and seems to be immortal (having fought against Sauron in the FA). I suppose elf genes are a lot more powerful than those of mortals but I can't work out if half-elves are in any way 'inferior' (bad word to use I guess) to proper elves.

Elrond also passes over the sea into the west which I thought was exclusively for 'true' elves (and of course ringbearers).

Does it mean Aragorn and Arwen's son was quarter-elven or did Arwen give up her immortality before he was born? If so why? If I was her I'd keep my elfness until I had children so they were more powerful and give it up after Aragorn dies.

Sorry for all these weird questions lol I just have no one to talk about this stuff for real, none of my friends have (or are willing to) read the books.
Elthir
Council Member
Posts: 433
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Elf vs Half Elf
on: July 15, 2010 10:58
Elrond and his children have been granted the choice of kindred, but this is special dispensation which connects to the special dispensation given to Earendil and Elwing.

Elrond chose to be accounted among the Elves, thus he will receive an Elvish fate: he may travel Over Sea into the West (as other Elves), and he cannot leave the World or its time -- not even in spirit should he be slain (also as other Elves).

Elros Halfelven also had this choice for instance (as brother of Elrond), but chose a mortal fate: upon death his spirit is released from the World and its time. Arwen thus chose a fate which made it possible that she would be sundered from her parents even beyond death, which makes that choice especially difficult...

... but in doing so she joined her fate to Aragorn however, her husband, which meant she must face a mortal death beyond the Circles of the World.


The children of Elrond lived with the 'life of the Eldar' -- what that means with respect to all details may not be wholly clear, or might be debated perhaps, regarding various issues; but it is clear enough that they were born early in the Third Age for example, and thus delayed their choices for many years. By Frodo's day Elrond had made his choice long ago, and so (as you note) he has the 'immortality' of the Eldar.

The implication (at least) from certain statements made in The Lord of the Rings is that the children of Elrond must choose which kindred they will belong to when Elrond sails... however this has become a somewhat murkier issue due to something Tolkien wrote in a letter -- though I'll add that he wrote this letter before he finished working on The Return of the King in any event (from which these author-published statements hail).

[Edited on 15/7/2010 by Elthir]
SilmarilEyes
Council Member
Posts: 11
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Elf vs Half Elf
on: July 15, 2010 11:37
Informative reply thankyou Elthir. Another question if I may.

In the movie (ROTK) during the attack on Minas Tirith Gandalf comforts Pippin when all seems at the end of things like this.

Gandalf: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path... One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass... And then you see it.
Pippin: What? Gandalf?... See what?
Gandalf: White shores... and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.

I'm not sure if that is in the book as I'm rereading it after 5 years and I've only just started The Two Towers but isn't Gandalf describing Valinor? Something Pippin will never see, or does death beyond the 'Circles of the World' mean mortals see the beauty of the undying lands but can't 'live' there only observe, or could mean that Gandalf knows what mortals experience after death or that he's just comforting Pippin not to fear death?

I do ponder about some relatively pointless things about the story sometimes so apologies.
Elthir
Council Member
Posts: 433
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Elf vs Half Elf
on: July 15, 2010 12:02
Very good question!

That description was lifted from another section of the book. In the films Gandalf seems to describe a mortal death to Pippin (what he can expect). I think this should not have been done, for it arguably steps upon an important aspect of Tolkien's work.

Carl Hostetter pointed this out in his review of the films; and I agree it should not have been taken out of its proper context (in the books).
SilmarilEyes
Council Member
Posts: 11
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Elf vs Half Elf
on: July 15, 2010 12:58
I haven't read that review but I agree, some of the context in the movies does seem a little clumsy.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email