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Galadivren
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on: April 10, 2016 05:42
-ad/-ed is the gerund/infinitive ending. Cabed-en-Aras = Leap of the deer, where Cabed = Leaping, which is the noun 'a leap'. Erthad = A uniting.

-as is the abstract suffix. This is essentially the greatest version of the original, for example... moe = soft/moeas = dough, ind = inner thought/innas = will, belt = strong in body/bellas = bodily strength. And so on, there are other attested examples. Erthas = A union.
MooMoo
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on: April 11, 2016 11:57
So you would say that 'erthas' is the closest to the 'Fellowship' that exists in Sindarin?
Galadivren
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on: April 14, 2016 10:44
Personally I would, yes.
oceanlily
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on: June 08, 2016 01:39
Hi I'm writing an article about sindarin elvish and am trying to translate the inscription upon the doors of Moria from the book The Fellowship of the Ring:

Ennyn Durin Amn Moria: pedo mellon a mino. Im Narvi hain echant: Celebrimbor o eregion teithant i thiw hin.

Durin's doors AMN Moria: speak friend and enter. I Narvi they made: Celebrimbor of Eregion wrote who THIW children.

That is what I have so far using the dictionary here but I'm stuck with many of the words which makes it difficult to make sense of the rest. Can anyone help?

Also I'm thinking that Celebrimbor may be a person (or dwarf) and Eregion a place can anyone confirm or refute that?
Lynk
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on: June 08, 2016 06:08
It's:
Ennyn Durin Aran Moria = Doors of Durin, King of Moria
pedo mellon a minno = speak 'friend' and enter
Im Narvi hain echant = I Narvi, made them
Celebrimbor o Eregion teithant i thiw hin = Celebrimbor of Eregion wrote these signs

Celebrimbor is... an Elf o.o . Narvi is a Dwarf. Celebrimbor is the Elf who forged the three great rings, and taught Sauron how to forge his.

Eregion = Land of Holly, Hollin. The Fellowship pass through there and camp there on the way from Rivendell to (ultimately) Moria.

Galadivren gives her regards.
De andelu ervenin! Mabo i grist hen. It's dangerous to go alone! Take this sword!
Lokyt
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on: June 08, 2016 10:38
If I may... "Im Narvi hain echant" is rather "Narvi himself made them".
Galadivren
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on: June 08, 2016 07:35
No, it isn't.

http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-3035605195.html

Im = I, myself (reflexive), not 'himself'.
Lokyt
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on: June 08, 2016 09:18
Well, of course, Tolkien's opinion on im (as far as I remember) slowly shifted from clear "I, me" through "myself" to the final "(anybody's) self", so what to choose would be rather a methodical question than a linguistic one.
But what about echant - which is (as Tolkien points out in VT/47.38 ) rather a 3rd pers. sg. (not 1st pers. sg. or some "universal" ) form?

[Edited on 07/08/2016 by Lokyt]
tdellaringa
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on: June 11, 2016 07:54
Hello, I am seeking a Sindarin translation for:

"A far green country."

Would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Lokyt
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on: June 14, 2016 08:56
Allright, an attempt of mine - with no guarantee of correctness:

gardh "a country, region, land"
calen "green (more modern and refering more to a green brightness of the vegetation in the sun)"; or laeg "green (probably obsolete, but originally refering to the colour of the fresh vegetation itself)"
haen "distant, remote, placed far from here"

So together perhaps gardh galen chaen or gardh laeg chaen ?

[Edited on 06/15/2016 by Lokyt]
Eowyn-fan
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on: July 06, 2016 02:08
I'm trying to translate a simple sentence into Sindarin: "My dog runs fast."

Does this look right? Hû nín nôr lim.

And as I understand it, both the circumflex and the acute accent indicate long vowels, with the circumflex marking an extra-long vowel. How would you transcribe the difference?

Thanks!
Lokyt
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on: July 07, 2016 09:48
Yep, I would say, that as a literal translation, it looks OK. I'm not sure about nôr as a 3rd person singular of nor-, but no counterproposals either

But I'm afraid that simple present tense in this case refers rather to a current activity (= nôr lim means "is running fast" ) than to a general fact (a skill).
So prehaps something like "my dog can run fast", "my dog is a fast runner" etc. would be better?

And what do you mean by "transcribing the difference"?

[Edited on 07/08/2016 by Lokyt]
keja
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on: July 08, 2016 06:09
Hello!
I'm looking for a Sindarin translation of "battle wound" and found dagor and harw.
Can I just combine these two words or does this need some adjustments? Thanks for the help!
Lokyt
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on: July 08, 2016 08:12
keja said:I'm looking for a Sindarin translation of "battle wound" and found dagor and harw.
Can I just combine these two words or does this need some adjustments?

Alright, first of all, I would personally prefer maeth ("a combat, a fight" ) over dagor ("a battle - as a massive event" ), since the cause of such a wound is the actual fighting, not just the fact that a battle occured.
And harw would probably be spelled haru in the "canonical" sindarin (but it makes no difference in pronunciation).

And yes, it needs some adjustments indeed
Such a compound, if it existed in sindarin, would be (as far as I can tell) maetharu and dagrocharu.

[Edited on 07/09/2016 by Lokyt]
Eowyn-fan
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on: July 09, 2016 10:12
Thanks!

Do you know how to write "My dog can run fast" or "My dog is a fast runner"?

No need to worry about the transcription question. I'm just transcribing the sentence in the International Phonetic Alphabet. I can look that up somewhere else.

Thanks again for your comment.


Lokyt said:Yep, I would say, that as a literal translation, it looks OK. I'm not sure about nôr as a 3rd person singular of nor-, but no counterproposals either

But I'm afraid that simple present tense in this case refers rather to a current activity (= nôr lim means "is running fast" ) than to a general fact (a skill).
So prehaps something like "my dog can run fast", "my dog is a fast runner" etc. would be better?

And what do you mean by "transcribing the difference"?

[Edited on 07/08/2016 by Lokyt]
Lokyt
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on: July 10, 2016 01:57
Eowyn-fan said:Do you know how to write "My dog can run fast" or "My dog is a fast runner"?
Only with little certainty and no guarantee (i.e. most probably not correct):
"A runner" could be simply noron. So "my dog is a fast runner" = hû nín noron lim?
"He can run" is a tricky stuff, since we know no attested word for "is able, has the skill" newer than late 1910's (when the language was even not to be called sindarin for many decades to come). Some researchers have suggested pol-, taken from quenya; but even if such a verb existed in sindarin, we wouldn't know how to use it in sentences (since quenya requires the accompanying verb to be in aorist - and that doesn't exist in sindarin for sure). But if we settled for infinitive instead of aorist, then perhaps "my dog can run fast" = hû nín pôl/póla nored lim? Or rather in a finite present tense - hû nín pôl/póla nôr lim?

Eowyn-fan said:I'm just transcribing the sentence in the International Phonetic Alphabet.
Check the usual IPA chart. Suprasegmentals, including the symbols to mark half-long and fully long vowels, are to the bottom-right (Though I would personally note e.g. both á and â simply as [a:], since the difference is merely phonetic, not functional.)

[Edited on 07/10/2016 by Lokyt]
keja
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on: July 10, 2016 07:50
Lokyt said:Alright, first of all, I would personally prefer maeth ("a combat, a fight" ) over dagor ("a battle - as a massive event" ), since the cause of such a wound is the actual fighting, not just the fact that a battle occured.
And harw would probably be spelled haru in the "canonical" sindarin (but it makes no difference in pronunciation).

And yes, it needs some adjustments indeed
Such a compound, if it existed in sindarin, would be (as far as I can tell) maetharu and dagrocharu.

[Edited on 07/09/2016 by Lokyt]



Thanks so much for your comment!

Ok maeth seems to make more sense
So I assume you would also prefer maetharu to dagrocharu.
Now I just need to transcribe it into Tengwar
Periar
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on: July 24, 2016 04:49
Hello all, I was trying to translate my name in Sindarin, Lukas, which should mean "born into light" from greek. So far I managed to come up with Abomircalon, Abonnen for born, mir for into and calad for light, but I'm not quite sure if it's grammatically correct, could please anyone help me out with it ?

Thanks !
Lokyt
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on: July 25, 2016 10:33
http://www.councilofelrond.com/elvishname/lucas-lucios-luke/
Lenielestel
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on: August 08, 2016 10:36
Greetings! I've been dabbling with a song translation for a bit, now submitting it here for your perusal and comment.

Faith of our Fathers

Bronwe o edain 'win
Faith of fathers-ours
Faith of our fathers

Bronadui
Enduring
Living still

Naur, gador, auth, ú-pulin gwathra
Fire, dungeon, war, cannot overshadow
In spite of dungeon, fire and sword

Ai gyr 'win gellar gellui
Oh hearts-ours rejoice triumphantly
Oh how our hearts beat high with joy

Ir lerim i peth aglareb
When we hear that word glorious
When 'ere we hear that glorious word

Bronwe edain 'win
Faith of fathers-ours
Faith of our fathers

Bronwe aer
Faith holy
Holy faith

Esteliatham na gurth 'win
We-will-trust unto our death
We shall be true to thee 'til death

I have a feeling that the last line should start with "Len" but it doesn't fit into the music with an extra syllable!

Any comments/corrections would be much appreciated. I expect I have missed mutations--I usually do!

Thanks and enjoy!
Lokyt
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on: August 10, 2016 10:52
It's always good to see someone trying to breathe life into Sindarin like this

As for comments and corrections, there's a lot to say here.
I can help with the following:

• o: Is there a reason why "Faith of our fathers" contains the preposition in one instance and not so in the other?
Because I would consider only the prepositionless construction correct; o XY probably translates as "from XY (= the one given by XY)", not "of XY (= the one he has, the one of his)".

• edain: "A father" is adar, not adan (that's "a human" ) They get easily confused.

• 'win: If I'm not mistaken, "our" (particularly when exclusive, like here) should definitely begin (or end, if you prefer the possesive suffixes) with m-. So it begins with v- when mutated (which is the case here).

• ... ú-pulin gwathra: I assume the meaning is supposed to be "(you who are) bronadui in spite of prison, fire and sword", right?
Well, if there was a verb pul- or pol- (no such one is attested) and if it allowed the following verb to be in finite present tense (there's no data backing that either), then ú-pulin gwathra would be "I cannot veil (= hide something in mist/shade/anything obscuring)". I don't think this is what you intended to say And I would recommend some simpler and more fitting construction anyway.
How about some "still bronadui after all prison, fire, wars"? That might be (with some poetic licence) bronadui eno ab band, bregedur, oeth bain, literally "bronadui still after imprisonement, wild-fire, wars all".

• gyr: I would expect the plural of gûr to be long-voweled as well (i.e. gŷr).

• gellar gellui: The verb gella- is unattested again (though not impossible) and gellui is an adjective (= I'm not sure if it can be used adverbially like this). So perhaps also better to choose some of the other ways of saying more or less the same? Maybe "(our hearts) are merry and jubilant", which would be ... berin gellui ?

• lerim: If there is a Sindarin verb akin to Q. hlar- "to hear" (and there indeed might be one, judging from the existence of its derivative noun lhathron), it most probably is lhathr- or lhathra-, meaing rather "to eavesdrop, to listen in" (not "to hear" ).
So I would simply stick with lasta- "to listen". Though "when we hear the word" and "when we listen to the word" is not exactly the same.

• i peth: The mutation is missing, should be i-beth.

• esteliatham: Estel is about believing that things will turn good, i.e. really about hope; not about (any) believing in general. So I would recommend a different construction as well.
How about e.g. "we will remain faithful to you"? That would (hopefully) be darthannam bŷr lín "remain-will-we faithful/loyal-followers (of) your(s)"...

• na gurth: The mutation is missing, should be na 'urth.

But furthermore, there's one important thing I can't help you with:

• bronwe: I'm afraid this noun's meaning is not "(the) faith" in the religious sense.
Bronwe is simply "a steadfastness, a quality of being adherent to something despite all troubles". You can show bronwe in relation to your nation, your family, your employer, your traveling plan (e.g. you don't change it even if there's a traffic jam in your way)... or your faith as well, for that matter. But it's about loyalty and not-changing-your-stand, not about having accepted something metaphysical as fact.
For a belief as such, religious or not, there seems to be the root SAB. But Tolkien apparently didn't derive any Sindarin words from it (only Quenya), so all that could be done here would perhaps be constructing some Neo-Sindarin word of one's own.

I hope this helps

[Edited on 08/11/2016 by Lokyt]
Alexanda
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on: November 03, 2016 07:27
Tolkien translated most of the Lord's Prayer, but he didn't translate the last two lines. Could you help me finish the translation? Thanks!

Ae Adar nín i vi Menel
no aer i eneth lín
tolo i arnad lín
caro den i innas lin
bo Ceven sui vi Menel.
Anno ammen sír imbas ilaurui vín
ar díheno ammen i úgerth vin
sui mín i gohenam di ai gerir úgerth ammen.
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Lokyt
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on: November 04, 2016 07:30
Sure. What kind of help do you need?
Alexanda
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on: November 05, 2016 03:38
Tolkien left this out:

"And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory,
forever and ever. Amen."
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Lokyt
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on: November 05, 2016 05:36
Yes, that much is obvious. So - any suggestions?

[Edited on 11/05/2016 by Lokyt]
Alexanda
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on: November 05, 2016 01:09
A útegi ammen mina úthaes,
ach edeleda o ulco.
Le no i arnad, a i balan, a i aglar,
anuir a anuir. Amen
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Lokyt
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on: November 07, 2016 12:09
All right, let's have a look.

"and don't lead us into temptation."
The conjunction a appears to become ah before a vowel.
A negative order/request is definitely avo + imperative (lenited, I suppose). Thus avo dogo or avdogo.
Ammen is a dative construction, whereas tog- probably rather requires an acusative one (a direct object). So maybe better just men?
And the preposition "to, into" seems to be just na.
So altogether perhaps ah avo dogo (or avdogo) men n'úthaes?

"but rid/free us of the evil"
Well, the prefix ed- plus a simple verb from pq. root LEK would be a nice analogy to Q. etelehta-, but an unnecessary one. The unprefixed (and at least somewhat attested) verb leithia- could do the job as well.
And as for "the evil", Goldogrin ulc became ogol in Sindarin. And a definite article to accompany it could be a good idea.
So maybe ach leithio men ui-ogol?

"your is the kingdom and the power and the glory"
"Your" is clearly lín. And no expressed verb "to be" is necessary here.
Thus simply lín i-arnad ah i-balan ah i-aglar.

"for ever and ever"
Well, "for eternity and eternity", literally translated, would be n'uir ah uir. But it sounds somewhat clumsy.
My suggestion would be looking at the Greek original of the prayer: it actually says "for ages of ages" (as does the usual Latin translation "in saecula saeculorum" ). So how about this wording - which might be n'anrand nan-anraind?

[Edited on 11/08/2016 by Lokyt]
Alexanda
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on: November 08, 2016 02:13
So:

Ah avdogo men n'úthaes,
ach leithio men ui-ogol.
Lín i-arnad ah i-balan ah i-aglar
n'anrand nan'anraind
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
Lokyt
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on: November 08, 2016 07:42
Hopefully and with little guarantee, yes.

P.S. anraind could (and probably rather should) be enraind as well.
Alexanda
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on: November 08, 2016 12:18
Ok. Thank you!
Eglerio Eru o I gely bân siriar. (Praise God from Whom all blessing flow)
JackieBlack
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on: December 02, 2016 09:31
Hello! I need to translate phrase "hopeless love" into Sindarin and I'm not sure whether my translations are right: benamdir meleth or benestel meleth. Could anyone help me with this please?
Lokyt
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on: December 03, 2016 07:13
Well, to make a long story short, it's meleth ben-estel.

[Edited on 12/03/2016 by Lokyt]
JackieBlack
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on: December 03, 2016 09:06
Thank you!
Galadivren
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on: December 10, 2016 04:51
Don't forget Estel is the concept of hope to the Elves and Amdir is what 'men would call hope'. So whether you want ben-estel or ben-amdir really depends on what the context is.
Lenielestel
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on: February 11, 2017 05:33
Lokyt: Thank you so much for all your helpful commentary on my last song translation. Some of your ideas led to much thinking and study, many language-nerdy rabbit trails of fun!
And now, something new!
This is a little attempt at Edelweiss from Sound of Music. I'll say up front that I am horrible with remembering to do the mutations, so I'm sure there are errors of that kind in abundance. I just haven't taken the time (YET) to really study them. When I'm out of college, perhaps (2.5 months to go!) So I apologize for offending the eyes and ears of those more dedicated students...Having said that, here goes:

Arthuilos, Arthuilos,
Edelweiss, Edelweiss

Ned minuial nin suilog
Every morning you greet me
in dawn me you-greet

Niben, glân, puig adh faen
Small and white, clean and bright
small, white, clean and radiant

Thiog gelir nin govaded
You look happy to meet me
you-appear happy me to-meet

Lotheg o gloss edlothio, galo
Blossom of snow may you bloom and grow
(a single) flower of snow may-you-bloom, may-you-grow

Edlothio, galo uireb
Bloom and grow forever
may-you-bloom, may-you-grow eternally

Arthuilos, Arthuilos,
Edelweiss, Edelweiss

Lútho bar-dôr nin uireb
Bless my homeland forever
enchant home-land mine eternally

A couple specific questions, if I may....
What do our collective minds think about using "enchant" in place of "bless"? Is there another word closer to the original meaning?
Also, I struggled with "every morning." Any suggestions there?
"You look happy"--is there a better way (preferably with one less syllable!) to express this?

As always, I welcome all comments, and thank you in advance for your help!
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