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Dwarflord
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Post Saruman rehabilitated
on: December 08, 2010 01:23
Hi everyone!

I was just wondering. What do you think the War of the Ring would be like, if Saruman accepted Gandalf's proposal, and helped the Free Peoples in their fight against Sauron?
Do you think he would take part in the defence of Minas Tirith? Would he join the Captains of the West in their march on Mordor?
Would his colour be changed, now that Gandalf becomes the White Wizard?

Any thoughts?

[Edited on 9/12/2010 by Dwarflord]
tarcolan
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Post RE: Saruman rehabilitated
on: December 09, 2010 03:00
Oh goody! A 'what if' thread.
Saruman is a problem. He grew in the telling and after, although Tolkien's later writings seem to take the form of commentaries on found documents, different versions of Saruman's story, each bringing its problems. There was probably a moment when he did consider surrendering to Gandalf and joining him but I think he was too far gone by then.
If he had? Well he was very persuasive so would be good at rallying people to the cause. I don't really know what other powers he had. Anyone? Gunpowder would be handy though.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Saruman rehabilitated
on: December 12, 2010 05:31
Saruman had way too much ego to ever be able to join any group in anything less than a leadership role. I'm sure that he never saw himself as anything less than a full ally to Sauron and he wouldn't join with Gandalf in any type of subservient role.
cirdaneth
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Post RE: Saruman rehabilitated
on: December 12, 2010 08:40
Interesting that Gladriel wanted Gandalf to be head of the White Council, but he refused, meaning that Saruman was appointed instead. Perhaps Gandalf guessed that in any other position, Saruman would be big trouble.
Cressida
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Post RE: Saruman rehabilitated
on: December 12, 2010 08:58
Saruman had way too much ego to ever be able to join any group in anything less than a leadership role. I'm sure that he never saw himself as anything less than a full ally to Sauron and he wouldn't join with Gandalf in any type of subservient role.

True, but presumably a Saruman who was capable of accepting Gandalf's offer would have been much changed from the way he was at his arrogant height. To put it another way, if he'd been able to accept the offer, he would have been able not to be leader. The two things are bound up with each other.
tarcolan
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Post RE: Saruman rehabilitated
on: December 19, 2010 11:34
When did he turn, or was he always too arrogant?
Spragh
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Post RE: Saruman rehabilitated
on: January 03, 2011 04:40
He was probably "The Wise".Before the White council or after?
Everybody knows that the "Heads" of anything are almoust allways arrogant )It seems to me that Saruman had too much time in the Orthanc for himself.Who knows?Maybe Gandalf knewed(after all,they were both sent from Valinor)that Saruman is a little greedie.I think that Saruman was in passion for the One Ring.He stalled the fight against Sauron,so that the One would not be destroyed.The fates of the two Istari are crossed.You know,like black and white,wright and wrong.If they were both on the same sides,maybe they would not be so effective.Sauron would not have Right Hand,and he would not have one more servant in who he dont belive.The captured Hobbits,from Sarumans Uruks,the"False Hobbits",buyed time for Frodo and Sam.So,Saruman's stupid attempt helped everybody,except Sauron.My conclusion is,that Saruman was more helpfull as enemy.After all,who knows that the Rohan and Gondor would ever unite if Aragorn did not helped the Horseman.And he would not have the good argument to convince Theoden to help Gondor,if the Theoden himself did not charge on enemy with the Aragorn.The battle of Helms Deep made an avalanche of Rohan towards Minas Tirith.If Saruman did not provoke them,and Theoden and Aragorn did not unite,i think Mordor would swalow them,one by one.My modest question is,what if Saruman grabed the One Ring.
Whooohooo!Three factions than,folks!Uruks never realy liked Orcs.Orcs dont like them also.And everybody knows that there was no Man,Elf or a Dwarf,who would have a drink,or a friendly conversation with the two piece of those.What would Saruman could do with the ring?Probably destroy Rohan.How?
I think that Gandalf would have to make another sacrifice and clinch with S.It is i think,most certain that the final battle would be betwen Isengard and Mordor.The others would probably be gone.So,it was good in a way,that Saruman was a weak hand of Dark Lord,slowed him,and did a favour to the West.Poor fellow.I wonder if he was back to Valinor when he died?Maybe he is on some gardening buissenes now.Dwarflord,let me tell you.Saruman would not be much of the help,on my opinion.No one could,exept Vala themselves fought off the shadow.Mordor was too strong for Gondor,Rohan,Elves and Dwarves together.I think.



[Edited on 5/1/2011 by Spragh]
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