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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post QS-8; The Darkening of Valinor
on: May 11, 2016 11:27
1)It is believed that Ungoliant was a creature originally corrupted to Melkor's service. Was she Maiar or just a nasty creature he molded and reformed ?

2)Does it seem that outside of their problem with Melkor, the Valar mostly act like teenagers and are just looking for an excuse to have another party?

3) 'The poison of Death that was in her went into their tissues...'
Is Death a gift or a danger?


4) Melkor seems to have another trait, besides deceit, that is not shared by his siblings; Fear. Is that trait only seen in him out of all the Valar?
Gandolorin
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on: May 15, 2016 06:52
1)
I basically think Ungoliant is another of JRRT's creations (very much like the Orcs) which he did not give much thought to at her inception, and thus had difficulty in explaining satisfactorily later on (which he did not really attempt, if I remember correctly).
I mean, how did she end up in the south of Valinor in the first place? Apparently, the Valar were not just sloppy in their ridding of Middle-earth of Melkor's creatures - they even missed out on gigantic vermin when creating Valinor!
Then again, Sauron is not master of Shelob much later, but finds her useful; could this have been the case with Melkor and Ungoliant too? Ungoliant might have been inspired by Melkor's rival themes in the Music of the Ainur, but went on her own way even then?

2)
No, a comparison to teenagers having a party - needing an excuse, even - is much too frivolous for my taste!
Wimps, yes, but grown-up wimps.

3)
Men have not even shown up yet (and may not even have had their awakening yet - they only awake with the rising of the sun? Anyone firm on this part?), so death and gift do not go together yet.
And again, if memory serves (of which I am rightfully dubious when I'm too lazy to do too much reading) death is spoken of as a gift exclusively in relation to Men.

4)
Of the Valar, I believe yes; at least in the sense of fear for himself. Fear for others - Yavanna's plea which led to the creation of the Ents might be construed as such a fear.
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The Lady Idril
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on: May 15, 2016 07:45
#2: I don't think the Valar are just "looking for an excuse to have another party". They are benevolent, peaceful and happy creatures who savor being joyful and having fun. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
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Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: May 20, 2016 05:23
1. What was Ungoliant? I don’t know. It is an interesting idea that she could have been a Maia, and seems possible given the wording of the passage.

2. Does it seem that outside of their problem with Melkor, the Valar mostly act like teenagers and are just looking for an excuse to have another party?

No!

This celebration was held regularly, so they weren’t just doing it to distract themselves from their problems.

They weren’t “partying” to satisfy shallow pleasures or to glorify themselves in the eyes of the Eldar. They were honoring Iluvatar by rejoicing in the wonders of his creation.

The special purpose of this feast was reconciliation, not distraction from the “dull” business of dealing with Morgoth. Making peace, healing the grievances Morgoth cultivated among the Elves - these were important and well intentioned aims.

In a positive sense, the Valar are sort of like children in their innocent love of Arda and their simplicity and purity of nature. I could never compare them selfish, carnal teenagers.

I am of the same mind as The Lady Idril.

3. Quote about poison of Death. Is it a gift, or a danger?

I thought it just meant she was a really poisonous spider.
And again, if memory serves (of which I am rightfully dubious when I'm too lazy to do too much reading) death is spoken of as a gift exclusively in relation to Men.

Gandolorin has a good point.

4. Is Morgoth the only Valar to feel fear?

Fear for himself? I could believe that.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
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