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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post Chapter quote; QS-9; Of The Flight of The Noldor
on: May 15, 2016 11:04
"say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not tp assail him, and sits not idle in grief.And it may be the Eru has set in me a fire greater tha thoug knowest...

Why go after Morgoth after learning that he cannot be beaten?
Did Feanor believe the statement of the herald? Did he reallty feel that he was so great that he could, despite Morgoth's status, defeat him, or did he jsut not care whether or not he was successful?


One thing I never noticed before. Once Feanor referred to Melkor as Morgoth, that name seems to be used constantly from that point on.
The Lady Idril
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on: May 18, 2016 05:20
I think Fëanor was trying to show that even though he can't win, he will still try. This is SORT OF like Frodo and Co. who are pretty much hopeless, but will try nonetheless to destroy the Ring. The difference is that Fëanor is just saying this to make himself sound good to the other Noldor while his true intentions are really just prideful and vengeful.

As for your last point, Fëanor begins using the name Morgoth right after his father's death when he curses Melkor and names him the "Black Foe of the World".
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Gandolorin
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on: May 20, 2016 03:27
The Lady Idril said:... This is SORT OF like Frodo and Co. who are pretty much hopeless...

Pretty much. 99.99% hopeless. Not 100% hopeless. Fëanor was a nihilist, caring nothing for others.
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Gandolorin
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Post Chapter quote; QS-9; Of The Flight of The Noldor
on: May 21, 2016 03:10
PotbellyHairyfoot said:
... And it may be the Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest ...

... or did [Fëanor] just not care whether or not he was successful?

In a very general sense, Fëanor is correct in that all of the Valar had spotty knowledge of the Eruhini, as none of theme dared to introduce their own themes into this theme of Eru's in the Music of the Ainur.

In a sense which Fëanor very likely did not foresee, "has set in me a fire" was also correct, as he was the only Elf whose Hröa was destroyed, reduced to ashes, when its Fëa left it upon the Hröa's death. Which leads us to the second part: yes, I believe he did not care, as I consider him a nihilist only topped by Melkor.

But I must refrain until chapter 13, when Fëanor really reveals himself, to bring down not just a diddly "ton of bricks", but the Cretaceous Asteroid which probably kicked the dinosaurs over an edge they were teetering on anyway, down on his nihilistic head.
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Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: May 22, 2016 05:59
In a previous post, you said you thought Fëanor was more evil than Sauron, second only to Morgoth. Would it be a more accurate representation of your viewpoint to argue that Fëanor was more of a nihilist than Sauron, rather than more evil? Because I can never agree that he was more evil than Sauron, but I can sort of follow your nihilism argument.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
Gandolorin
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on: May 23, 2016 02:45
Elfeawen Lomiondil said:... Would it be a more accurate representation of your viewpoint to argue that Fëanor was more of a nihilist than Sauron, rather than more evil? ...

Yes, very certainly more of a nihilist, and certainly far less capable of cold-blooded evil than Sauron; and I would also consider Fëanor far more reckless, thus far less in control of his emotions; come to think of it, as far a recklessness goes, even Melkor places only a distant second to Fëanor!

I knew E~S has a perfect Fëanor "emoty": Image
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Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: May 26, 2016 05:59
Oh, well, that makes sense. I can see that.

(That emoji is perfect )

What is your definition of nihilism? I had a vague sense of the word, so I looked it up, and according to my dictionary, it refers to people who recognize no values of right and wrong whatsoever, or actively try to tear down all existing value systems. By this definition, I can easily agree that Morgoth fits the bill. Fëanor does not seem like a perfect match as he has a strong, though flawed, sense of justice. However, the Oath, which comes down equally hard on the fair and the foul, the friend and the foe, is nihilist certainly. I think Fëanor was simply too out of control to conform to any category.
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
Elfeawen Lomiondil
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on: June 01, 2016 10:43
I agree that on some level Fëanor did not care whether he lived or died. Leaving Morgoth’s evil unchallenged was more hateful to him than long waiting in the Halls of Mandos.

I think Fëanor did believe that he might be able to achieve more than was expected of the Eldar, but regardless, he felt that it was better to try to overcome those limits and fail than to never try at all. Although I am not blind towards his tendency towards self destructiveness (all the more tragic because it pulled down others with him), this is actually one of the things I agree with him on. I admire the dauntless spirit of the Noldor.

The Lady Idril said:... This is SORT OF like Frodo and Co. who are pretty much hopeless...

Lady Idril, that is why the Noldor’s quest appeals to me, I think.

This is my favorite Fëanor quote, from his final response to the Prophecy of the North: “We are threatened with many evils, and treason not least; but one thing is not said: that we shall suffer cowardice, from cravens or the fear of cravens. Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda.”
"There shall be war between the Children of Iluvatar and the Ainu Melko. What if we perish in our quest? The dark halls of Vê be little worse than this bright prison" ~ Fëanor
Gandolorin
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on: June 11, 2016 05:58
Elfeawen Lomiondil said:... “We are threatened with many evils, and treason not least; but one thing is not said: that we shall suffer cowardice, from cravens or the fear of cravens."

Flaming (as per his name) idiot. Ignores the one serious danger for his quest (compared to which cowardice, cravens or the fear of cravens is total chicken droppings): treason. At least the dinosaurs had no inkling that there was an asteroid heading their way (not that it mattered). Damp Matchstick could have known about his version of the asteroid; maybe he even did. Pathetic, just totally pathetic. Or far worse.
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