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Vaulrir
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Post Where are the Entwives?
on: October 04, 2003 10:39
Do the ents ever get reunited with the entwives. i have only read the silmarillion, the lord of the rings and the hobbit so do not have a wider knowledge of events after the lord of the rings events. Were the entwives destroyed?, are they still lost?, have they become mere trees? or were the two reunited? I would hope it would be the latter.

[Edited on 23/9/2007 by cirdaneth]
atalante_star
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 06, 2003 04:46
You're going to be disappointed

Letters, 144:

"I think that in fact the Entwives disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin ... They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants ... must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult - unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know."
DaughterofNimrodel
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 07, 2003 04:39
I'm not so sure they did disappear. In FOTR, the book, not the movie, during the part where a group of hobbits are talking at the Green Dragon, or one of the other taverns, it's metioned that one of the hobbits thought he saw a walking tree. Then later Treebeard says that the Shire sounded like a place the entwives would like. It always seemed to me as though Tolkien was setting us up to believe that the entwives could possibly be in the Shire. Could it be that they are there but have grown "treeish". The thing is Tolkien never takes that hobbit comment any further, but I tend to believe that it may have been the whole reason for even putting it in. Those are just my thoughts, but great thread I've always been curious about this.
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atalante_star
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 11, 2003 10:38
Sorry I was in a cynical mood yesterday....

But really, no I don't think they met again on Middle Earth ... BUT ... if one accepts that all living creatures end up in the Halls of Mandos (and as the Ents were made by Iluvatur, there's no reason that I know of why they shouldn't end up in Mandos eventually) the Ents and the Entwives should be reunited in the Blessed Realm......ahhhh!

Though ... saying that ... I'm not sure what would happen if through the ages they simply became trees. Would the fact that they used to be sentient be enough to get them to Mandos?

And ... can you imagine a bunch of Huorns causing chaos in the Halls?

[Edited on 12/10/2003 by atalante_star]
k
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 12, 2003 07:35
i thought that only elves ended up in the halls of mandos, that men (im not sure that the fate of other races was ever mentioned) left the circles of the world to fates unknown and that the elves souls since they were immortal had to dwell till end times on arda...

anyway i doubt that if the entwives were alive they would be in the old forest, since they gave thier love to smaller trees and wanted most to be able to tell things how to grow, if they did exsist they would more likely be in the shire- which we know they are not.
atalante_star
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 12, 2003 07:46
Well, as far as I know (this is all from canon or very near canon sources) - elves went there, men went there for a bit until their souls went elsewhere (and who knows where the elsewhere was?), I'm pretty sure dwarves went there and it's suggested that orcs also. So why not our lovely Ents and Entwives?

Somewhere in the Silm, it mentions that the Halls grew larger as the world went on, and that there were separate "compartments" for each race....
atalante_star
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 13, 2003 10:25
Assuming the Entings were around 50% male and 50% female, do you think the male ones somehow came back to Fangorn, or is there another community of Ents out there?
Vaulrir
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 22, 2003 10:51
If the ents never met up with the entwives again then they will die out. If when one is killed or becomes treeish it is not replaced ent numbers are likely to fall rapidly. Does this mean they are a doomed species, destined to wither and shrink in numbers until a few solitary ents maybe only fangorn himself roam the woods of middle earth still patrolling the lands where their kin once flourished.

Waaaaah!- Im making myself sad:cry::cry::cry:
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: November 13, 2004 03:12
Here's a related question then.... where do you think the Entings went to? With the Entwives? Struck out on their own somewhere?
Some of them, at least, seem to have grown up and ended up in Fangorn:
"Treebeard", TTT"Only three remain of the first Ents that walked in the woods before the Darkness .... And of us three, Leaflock and Skinbark are not much use for this business."
Out of the three remaining Ents who were alive at a point in time, only one is left, and there are other Ents who exist. The rest must have been born at some point.

[Edited on 23/9/2007 by cirdaneth]
Ash_Nazg
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: November 17, 2004 06:22


I remember when I first read that I thought that the entwives owuld eb in the shire and that the hobbits would find them before the end of the book, I bet Tolkein was considering it but cut it out.

Maybe Old man willow was misnamed and actually old woman willow?
Tcherepin
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: December 03, 2004 09:32
I rather doubt that the ents and the entwives ever found one another again, but I dearly loves the ents. I see them as tree-ish,yes, but the entwives not as tree-ish, but rather as gardeners of the plains, grass, wheat, barley, orchards and things like that. Their hearts are in things they tend and make grow. They order things and make tidy gardens, walking alomong the plants with their sun-browned skin, dark under the bright sky. Yet, their mens hearts are more with letting wild things be as they are.

It's a terribly long time to live and not hear the voice of the one you love, you know? Thousands and thousands of years, they were apart. It's this part of it that I love and ache for the most, the tremendous expanse of time....

I've written that before on these forums. Toklien captures time so very well....

Tolkiens books are full of trajedies, this one is one of the most poignant, I thiink. It's one of the reasons that the books have so much more in them than the movies do.

ED: HERE ENDS the old Entwives thread of 2004

[Edited on 23/9/2007 by cirdaneth]
Tcherepin
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 05:57
ED: HERE BEGINS Tcherepin's new Entwives thread of September 2007

I know they disappeared, and they likely went South. I also know that there really is no answer to this question that's extractable from the books (or at least the ones I've read) , but I'm curious what people think...

The Ents and the Entwives is a tragic tale that really touches me. It's one of the saddest tales in Middle Earth, IMHO.

[Edited on 23/9/2007 by cirdaneth]
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 05:57
It is often said that they were across the Anduin, working the land and teaching, and may have been destroyed in the Second Age when the works of Sauron turned those lands into the Brown Lands
Aegor
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:01
I still like to think that they are in the Old Forest... it may not be right but I don't know, it's just feels good to me
JaimeLouise
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:01
I think they're in the Old Forest too.
In the first chapter of FotR, the subject of 'live-tree-spottings' in the Old Forest comes up in the Hobbits' discussion.

Did anyone else notice that?

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Ilandir
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:02
I think they're in the Old Forest too.
In the first chapter of FotR, the subject of 'live-tree-spottings' in the Old Forest comes up in the Hobbits' discussion.

Did anyone else notice that?


Indeed. That phrase always intrigued me and I do believe that there are still some Entwives in Middle Earth and some are in the Old Forest too - probably under the protection of Tom Bombadil.
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JaimeLouise
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:03
Yeah, LOL. It would make sense that they decided to hang out around Tom.

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asea_aranion
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:05
I'd like to think that there were some who weren't taken out by Sauron. Maybe they could have wound up in the Old Forest. Didn't Tolkien say he didn't know what happened to them?
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:05
Aye, that he did. But I think he hinted at their whereabouts in the Hobbits' conversation.

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Tcherepin
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:06
I don't remember that quuote about the trees in the old forest! ....not at all.

But the entwives were farmers, nut brown skin creatures with deep eyes who loved growing things, and teaching. I don't think the entwives would be in the old forest, unless they gave up on growing things and went looking for thier men, again.

If they did, I hope they found them....:cry:
Ilandir
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:07
Well, there is a hint (a small mention) of mysterious tree-like creatures around the Old Forest if I'm not mistaken. It is in FOTR in one of the first chapters. I'll try and find it if I can.
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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:08
In The Two Towers, when Treebeard is talking with Mery and Pippin, he specifically mentions that the Entwives had crossed the Anduin and were working the land there, and also, that the last time the Ents crossed the Anduin to see them, the Entwives were gone and the land, called The Brown Lands on the maps, was destroyed by Sauron.
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:09
I am sure that you are right PotbellyHairyfoot and that the Entwives are destroyed but I still like to think that they are somehow alive and well in the Old Forest (even though those are probably Huorns or something like that).
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:09
I'm not sure that they were ALL destroyed, but any search for the Entwives should likely start in the Brown Lands and then head East from there. To the South was Mordor, to the North was the evil found in Southern Mirkwood, and to the West was Fangorn Forest where they would be seen by the Ents. We know almost nothing of the lands to the East of the Brown Lands and wouldn't be any the wiser if they were frolicking there.
Treebeard also stated that the Entwives preferred more open areas rather than the deep forests; so I prefer to think of the 'walking tree' seen in the Old Forest as a searching Ent, or possibly a Huorn; as the Entwives wouldn't likely be hiding there.
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:10
Well, there is a hint (a small mention) of mysterious tree-like creatures around the Old Forest if I'm not mistaken. It is in FOTR in one of the first chapters. I'll try and find it if I can.
You are right, Ilandir. Sam says, in the pub, that his cousin Hal had seen a giant tree man. However it was not seen in the Old Forest but on the North Moors ... a more open area of the North Farthing. (So PB is right too.) It was probably an ent rather than an entwife, as Hal reported that it was the size of an elm, and entwives tend to be like smaller trees.

There is, of course, no reason why entwives shouldn't turn up among newly planted orchards and light woodland in the Fourth Age when Aragorn and Arwen restore Fornost and Annuminas which are just North of the Shire border. Any such areas pre-existing will have reverted to wild (crab-apple, sloe etc) but required some care and shepherding, so any entwives who migrated there could have been quietly doing their thing for centuries. I hope so!
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:11
This is such an interesting topic for me. So interesting that sometimes, when driving past nice looking forests I think "Ohhh, Entwives!" to the amusement of whoever my instructor is at the time hahah.

I just wanted to quote Michael N. Stanton here - from a book I'm reading called "Hobbits, Elves and Wizards". There's a little paragraph that goes like this:

"Tolkien's own view of the fate of the Entwives wavered somewhat: he told Naomi Mitchinson in 1954, 'I think that ... the Entwives (were) destroyed ... in the War of the Last Alliance.' Almost two decades later, in 1972, he answered the query 'did the Ents ever find the Entwives?' with a different sort of certainty: 'it is plain that there would be for Ents no re-union in "history"...' Thus Tolkien echoes Treebeard's own bittersweet thought that there might be some meeting sometime, but it 'will only be when we have both lost all that we now have.'(II, 100; 94)"

I found this rather interesting to read, given that I'm a staunch Ent + Entwives = happy reunion person hahah.
LadyBeruthiel
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:11
Perhaps the Entwives went into hiding after Sauron destroyed their lands. I always liked to think they taught the Shire folk how to farm before they disappeared, but I suppose there would be some kind of hobbit lore to support that.

Tolkien's idea that the Ents and Entwives might reunite outside of history intrigues me. It sounds like a hint of the Professor's Christian belief that there will be an end to history and a new, timeless kingdom will be inaugurated. I wonder if he took his ME mythology that far? (Here I reveal that I haven't read HoME, Lost Tales, or any of the post-LOTR publications.) :blush:
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 23, 2007 06:23
Bumpety-bump!

If you notice something strange has happened to this thread you are right! I managed to find the old Entwives thread which has languished for several years, and had some good stuff in it. So I moved the posts from Tcherepin's new thread to the old one. (Which is why they all have today's date) Then I moved the name and deleted the new thread. THis message should bump it fom page 14 to the top of the list.

I have indicated where Tcherepin's new thread starts, but it's well worth reading over the old posts. There are some interesting points.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: September 30, 2007 02:01
In may of 2006 I took a friend to Algonquin Park, and while walking on one of the nature trails, we found this near one of the ponds. Doesn't it look like an Ent or Entwife sitting on a rock and lecturing an Enting?
LadyBeruthiel
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: October 07, 2007 04:16
Oh, my, yes. That's what I like about LOTR--it's so realistic!

What I mean by that, of course, is that Tolkien's imagination never seems to stray very far from the actual world--he just gives it forms of life that we wouldn't notice otherwise.
lijahluver
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Post RE: Where are the Entwives?
on: July 13, 2011 11:30
That they will meet in the halls of Mandos seems reasonable, and like a happy ending to me I think I'll accept that.

Someone said orcs go there though?? That doesn't sound too nice. I suppose I read that but I didn't remember. I wonder if they would be restored to their original state (elves), or if they would be separated into a different area. Because aren't the halls of Mandos supposed to be peaceful, and free of evil? Oh well, I'm getting off track. Sorry.

Great picture by the way ^^ It does look like that
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