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erutan2099
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Post Combining tense and case - translation assistance please
on: January 27, 2017 05:32
I am attempting to translate the following sentence:

Your father, next door, is looking for you.

What I have so far is:

Atarelda, ento fenna, cénanel.

I am unsure about that last word, I was trying to combine present tense and dative case, can that be done?
-Erunámo -"Istyallo, Ilu."
dirk_math
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on: January 27, 2017 06:42
cénanyel would rather mean something like "I am looking at you".
I wouldn't mix datives and accusatives like in your example
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
erutan2099
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on: January 29, 2017 04:54
Independent pronouns it is then.

How about this?

Cénan elya.
-Erunámo -"Istyallo, Ilu."
Tamas Ferencz
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Post Combining tense and case - translation assistance please
on: January 29, 2017 09:29
erutan2099 said:I am attempting to translate the following sentence:

Your father, next door, is looking for you.

What I have so far is:

Atarelda, ento fenna, cénanel.

I am unsure about that last word, I was trying to combine present tense and dative case, can that be done?


"Next door" meaning 'in the neighbouring house' and "look for someone" meaning "search for someone" are English idioms; you can't just translate them word for word because they will not have the same meaning in Quenya. You need to translate the sense of the expressions (for instance you can use the verb cesta- 'seek, search for'; it is probably followed by an accusative).

[Edited on 01/30/2017 by Tamas Ferencz]

[Edited on 01/30/2017 by Tamas Ferencz]
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erutan2099
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Post Combining tense and case - translation assistance please
on: January 31, 2017 10:56
Tamas Ferencz said:
"Next door" meaning 'in the neighbouring house' and "look for someone" meaning "search for someone" are English idioms; you can't just translate them word for word because they will not have the same meaning in Quenya. You need to translate the sense of the expressions (for instance you can use the verb cesta- 'seek, search for'; it is probably followed by an accusative).


That is a very good point : I hadn't even given any thought to the fact that I was utilizing idioms.

Alright, considering these points here is the reconstructed sentence :

Atarelda, i ento coassë, cestëan elya.
-Erunámo -"Istyallo, Ilu."
Tamas Ferencz
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on: January 31, 2017 11:38
You are getting closer.

ento "next" is an adverb, not an adjective. The corresponding adjective is enta "another, one more"; see http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-1589579005.html

cestean means "I am searching for"; as the subject is atarelda you don't need a pronominal ending at all.
"you" as an independent pronoun is lye or elye

[Edited on 02/01/2017 by Tamas Ferencz]
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erutan2099
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on: February 01, 2017 04:29
Tamas Ferencz said:

cestean means "I am searching for"; as the subject is atarelda you don't need a pronominal ending at all.


Wait, so because I already stated that the subject is "your father" I don't have to put the "elyë" into the sentence at all? (Also, I think I need to review dative case again.)


"you" as an independent pronoun is lye or elye


My bad, that was a typo.


[Edited on 02/01/2017 by erutan2099]
-Erunámo -"Istyallo, Ilu."
Tamas Ferencz
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on: February 01, 2017 08:45
erutan2099 said:
Tamas Ferencz said:

cestean means "I am searching for"; as the subject is atarelda you don't need a pronominal ending at all.


Wait, so because I already stated that the subject is "your father" I don't have to put the "elyë" into the sentence at all? (Also, I think I need to review dative case again.)


I was not talking about lye/elye which is the object of the verb cesta-, but the ending -n in cestean, which appears to be the first person singular pronominal ending -n/-nye.
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erutan2099
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on: February 02, 2017 03:41
Tamas Ferencz said:

I was not talking about lye/elye which is the object of the verb cesta-, but the ending -n in cestean, which appears to be the first person singular pronominal ending -n/-nye.


ah, ok, that makes a little more sense. However, my next question would then be : how would I differentiate between the "I am searching" pronominal and the "searching for you" such as in the Dative Case?

Would the "-n" in this case be attached to the "Elyë" to form "for you"?

EG: cestëa elyën

[Edited on 02/02/2017 by erutan2099]
-Erunámo -"Istyallo, Ilu."
Tamas Ferencz
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on: February 02, 2017 03:49
If cesta- requires a dative case them yes however, we don't know that. It may well be that it is followed by an accusative. The verb ces- which comes from the same root, certainly
is followed by an accusative as in cese parma.

see http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-2154024483.html


But lacking evidence to the contrary, yes, we can go with cestea lyen.

[Edited on 02/02/2017 by Tamas Ferencz]
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erutan2099
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on: February 02, 2017 04:45
Works for me.

That makes the final sentence :

Atarelda, i enta coassë, cestëa elyën.

Thanks so much for your help!
-Erunámo -"Istyallo, Ilu."
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