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Figwit
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Post Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 11, 2003 08:06
caps are here and here for the EE

what is important about this scene is:
-what kind of information does it give (you may compare to the book, as long as it's not: Glory should've been in the council scene..)
-how are the new characters introduced?
-is it too long, too short... etc...

the question is *drumrolls* what is your favourite... counil line!! yes, I changed the question!
and please motivate your answer, not just: ooooh Orli did soooooo well in deliviring that line... or: isn't Pip just the cutest? we're talking importance to the scene, the mood, the rest of the story, delivery, underlining meaning... stuff like that...
Eothain
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 11, 2003 11:02
Boromir: It is a gift. A gift to the foes of Mordor. Why not use this Ring? Long has my father, the Steward of Gondor, kept the forces of Mordor at bay. By the blood of our people are your lands kept safe! Give Gondor the weapon of the enemy. Let us use it against him!


This is probably my favorite line as it's quite inportant. One: It introduces Boromir as a charactor, sure you've had the Boromir and Aragorn meeting just a few minutes ago, but this introduces him to the rest of the fellowship including frodo. Also, it shows about his personality: ambitious, proud and noble, which sets the scene up for the Aragorn/Boromir talk in Lothlorien and his atempt to take the ring. This also reminds the viewer that however 'evil' Boromir is when he tries to take the ring from Frodo, that he's doing it for a good cause and he is really actually good at heart, despite his actions.



[Edited on 12/7/2003 by Eothain]
Nevthónîel
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 12, 2003 12:01
I chose "Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king". I love that line! It shows what Boromit thinks of Aragorn and the Ring. It's a really tough question though. I love Elrond's speech: "Strangers from distant lands.." and also Aragorns's "If by my life.." They're great.
But I think the scene is far too short, well, I may compare with the books, but it IS too short. I'm not a Legolas-fancier, but they could have introduced Legolas a bit more - when the council is over, you know almost nothing about him, even if it's obviously that dwarves and elves don't like each other.
It's a bad thing that you can't get a closer look on Elladan and Elrohir. Well, maybe I'm a bit too curious
eowynshue
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 12, 2003 03:53
cant...choose...love..whole...scene! :love:
gwendeth
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 12, 2003 04:14
I like Legolas' line... - at least for the movie, it introduces Aragorn and his importance to the whole story line, as well as the conflict between Aragorn and Boromir.
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Legolas{Greenleaf}
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 12, 2003 08:40
Boromir: One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its black gates are guarded by more than just orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep. And the great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland. Riddled with fire and ash and dust. The very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. It is folly!


I liked Boromir in the Council of Elrond and his quotes. But this quote really struck me as very dramatic. He seemed exasperated, like he knew it was a doomed quest from the beginning. You also learn his fiery passion for his city. He wanted to help Minas Tirith and he keeps that fierce loyalty throughout the duration of the movie.

Peace~

[Edited on 12/7/2003 by Legolas{Greenleaf}]
Roheryn
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 12, 2003 05:51
This is one of my favorite scenes from the film, as well as a favorite chapter from the book. It is hard to choose one line as they are all very important in their own way, but I must go with Frodo's - straight out of the book and spoken by the same person. Amidst all the clamour and confusion comes this little voice - clear and purposeful, even though uncertain as to how to do what he has just volunteered for. Everyone stops and turns to look at him, and one by one the members of the fellowship volunteer.

The scene sets out the situation, shows the turmoil the ring creates, and puts forth the brave little hero. All the major characters have now been introduced and the story can now move forward towards the goal of destruction of the ring. Tensions are shown between elf and dwarf, and between Boromir and Aragorn and then the general tension is broken by the interuptions of Sam, and of Pippin and Merry.

The scene is pivotal and all in all one of my favorites.
Diva
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 13, 2003 10:24
Being a non-bookie I really like Gimli's line as it laid down the resentments between Elves and Dwarves. Legolas' line was also importent to the story, but I liked the deliverance of Gimli's line better.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 13, 2003 02:56
ooooo, how to choose, how to choose... I chose Pippin's litle "mission.... quest... thang" thing, but then I also loved "Great!.... Where are we going?" Oh well... just thought I'd throw that one out there.
eowynshue
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 14, 2003 04:54
ok i went for boromirs "One does not simply walk into Mordor.." bit because it shows how difficult the misson (quest...thing..) will be and the delivery of it is great

pippins "mission...quest...thing" line is adorable! :love: lol, but for reasons outlined by figwit i didnt choose it

and elronds classic "it must be cast back into the firey chasm from whence it came" is just brilliantly delivered
Figwit
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 15, 2003 12:18
The Council Of Elrond is my favourite part of the book: it's long, it's detailed, it's boring and it's pure Tolkien. Not only does he lay out the ground patterns of his story ánd the historical development of ME in general, but he also manages to accurately portray each new character with a depth that – to me – was both surprising and refreshing.

As was to be expected, PJ resized the council sequence to the absolute minimum, took all the exciting stuff out and added a wonderful PJ surprise in the shape of *everyone* knowing who Aragorn was. Mmmm... Needless to say, I didn't like it.

But let me go through this scene more methodically.
First of all, the introduction of the characters. A lot of new and important characters are introduced at the council: Elrond (you don't really know much about him yet, and you really don't learn any more now), Gimli, Legolas, Aragorn (you know Strider, but that's a different person) and Boromir.
Gimli is only a shred of what he used to be in the books, both at the council and afterwards: because he lost the background story of why he was there (the treat of the Wraith and the worries about Balin) he's become this really shadowy character. You don't know much more than that he's a Dwarf, that he's got a temper and a pretty thick head, that he doesn't like Elves and that Dwarves apparently fight with axes. That's a lot to convey in a few lines, but still it's not enough – to me anyway.
And where is Glóin in all of this? I realise that it would have been difficult to add yet another character to the story, but they could have given him at least one line? Glóin was also in favour of keeping and using the Ring, which would have created a better perspective on the matter. However, PJ chose to emphasise the danger of the Ring ánd the fact that Boromir was alone with his desire to keep it, so the fact that the Dwarves were more inclined to the Gondorian's line of thinking had to disappear.

What also disappeared completely was Legolas, the messenger from Thranduil who seems to have no clue as to why his message (that Gollum escaped) was so important. In stead, we get and Elf Prince, eloquent and well-informed about matters that actually have nothing to do with him. [He is Aragorn, son of Arathorn.] He is haughty (check), wise (erm... wrong), has a bit of a temper (Legolas?! Temper?!) and despises Dwarves (check). Oh, and Elves use bows. A very short introduction to what PJ seems to consider the perfect Elf – but not to Legolas Greenleaf.

Enter Aragorn, heir to the Kings of Men. Mmmm... now, I already knew something was dodgy about this Ranger when I saw him draw a complete sword and when he kept silent about his heritage. But thís: literally everyone (accept for the Hobbit) instantly knew who Aragorn Son of Arathorn was, including Boromir who in the book is pretty sceptic about the whole thing. Add to that that all of a sudden Gondor has to show allegiance to this king of Anor... big change imho. And Aragorn himself is a soft-speaking stranger with a kind appearance and a rather small ego.

Speaking about ego's, Boromir was... strange. At first, I didn't like him. It took me several viewings to actually get to the point where I could relax and say: Okay, this is Boromir. *My* Boromir, the strong and handsome soldier that I loved from the books, was passionate yes, and a bit of a bore at times. But he was also boasting about Gondor and his successes all the time, he was loud, he was – surprisingly enough – well informed, and he was not this scary person who against everyone's good advice wants to keep the Ring.
This Boromir however, was toned down a bit, more likeable I guess, but he stood alone. Without good reason too: everyone accepted Aragorn as his better, everyone accepted that the Ring should be destroyed and thus everyone looked at Boromir with a mix of pity and impatience.
He also wasn't shocked by seeing Frodo – that was a disappointment. You didn't see the unease of a man who felt he was alone in a crowd, a man who felt thoroughly out of place.
And... although PJ added a bit of it in the EE, there was no real reference to either Faramir or the dream. That thís was the reason Boromir was there, was not told. So you got the impression that everyone there were sort of the highest representatives of their people.
And he was blonde! A blonde! [I'm still not over that.]

Okay, moving on: where was Bilbo? Everyone at the council (save Legolas and Boromir) treated the old Hobbit with the utmost respect. He even volunteers to take the Ring: it doesn't get a wave of laughter though. I wanted to see that! I wanted to see just how important Bilbo really was...

Leaves me with the formation of the Fellowship. Again, I didn't like it. Frodo was great – that line is just wonderful – and I did like everyone offering their aid (that was better than in the book, imho) and yeah, Sam was good too, but Merry and Pippin?! Come on! It *was* funny, there's no denying that, but after not making a conscious decesion to put their lives on the line in the cornfield, now comes another episode of How To Stumble Into Quest You Really Don't Want To Be a Part Of. That was horrible! Merry and Pippin are loyal friends of Frodo's, not morons who want to be part of something but don't know what or why!

From a purely cinematographic point of view, however, this scene is a masterpiece. Even without witnessing the working process on the EE, you can see how detailed and complex this work is. Every reaction shot is right, the colour, the lighting, the positions of the actors in dialogue. Just great.

If I hadn't know the book, I would certainly have adored this scene. It has some of Tolkien's original grandeur (Elrond's opening speech for instance), it has a threatening atmosphere (between Gandalf and the Ring there are some pretty eerie moments), it's a brilliant showcase of PJ's capabilities as a director and it has some of the most memorable lines in the entire movie.
BUT I do know the book. And I was, inevitably, disappointed.

As for the poll, I voted for 'By the blood of our people were your lands kept safe.' Because it's a beautiful part, it's very well delivered and it's Boromir. This is the line that made me click, that made me appreciate Sean Bean as Boromir. Because, if you close your eyes, you *hear* desperation, anger, fear, pride, weariness and a deep love for his father. All the things that make Boromir my favourite character, all the emotions that add to him this incredible depth. All the reasons why he decides to take the Ring in the end. You don't see it: it's not in his expression or in his stance. But it's in the way that he says those words... it made me fall in love all over again with my Gondorian. So I picked that line.
Eothain
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 15, 2003 05:12
Wow... Figwit... That was over 1200 words long.... Can you do my English coursework for me please?

Anyhow, Boromir isn't blonde, he's brown (check my avatar).

Edit: Actually, my avatar is a bad example, but he is brown.

[Edited on 15/7/2003 by Eothain]
eowynshue
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 15, 2003 05:51
id say hes somewhere inbetween. hes not a proper blond (like legolas, galadriel etc) but hes not a proper brunette (like aragorn, frodo, etc). its kind of a mid-point. lol. but in the books hes not as blond as in the film, so erm yeah..
_mithrim
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 18, 2003 01:14
I voted Frodo: "I will take the Ring to Mordor. Though.. I do not know the way. "


To me that is the most important quote. It shows Frodo, the once timid and child like hobbit, growing up, taking up courage, responsibility and learning self sacrifice.

At that point he saw that the task was set on him. If he did not take that task no one would. He would have to go on the quest to try to solve the problems of the world. If he didn't make that choice by saying those simple words middle earth might have been destroyed under Saurons control.

I thought it was the point where the little adventure or outing turned into a quest. No longer was it just a favor for Gandalf, but a choice all his own.
Faramirs_first_kiss
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: July 18, 2003 09:24
I enjoyed this scene. Yes, there is an awful lot missing from the books but there's just no way you could keep it all in. One thing I like is that you can clearly see the differences between the cultures here, not so much in the way they speak or what they say, but in their appearance. It hints that there is a lot more to discover about each of these characters, their backgrounds, their ways of life. I can also see why everyone knows who Aragorn is. It took me fully quarter of an hour and the help of diagrams to explain to my brother why Aragorn is the heir to the throne of Gondor and why this annoyed Boromir. To get this across in a short enough space of time through characters who didn't know what they were on about would have been impossible.

One thing that does get on my nerves is that all their individual reasons for being at the Council have gone. Elrond actually says they were "summoned". Leaving out the fact that they all arrived individually somewhat decreases the magnitude of the Council, imo, taking away the idea that they were brought together by some sort of destiny which Gandalf talks about in Moria ("you were meant to have the Ring"). A brief, and it need only be brief, statement of purpose from each group of characters present would bring that back and give the individuals more depth.

As purely a piece of cinema this scene is incredible. The mood created by Elrond's doom speech is cautious and troubled and the reaction of the characters to the ring is scintilating, as is their reaction to the Black Speech. The dynamics of that bit, the change in lighting and sound were brilliant and really hammered home the enormity of what was going on.

As for the line, well it was a toss up between the "it is a gift" line and the "I will take it" line. Both are obviously significant to the story as a whole and both develop the characters a disproportionate amount for just a few words, in the ways that Figwit and _mithrim have said. If it was a question of significance then it would be Frodo's line, but my favourite was Boromir's for its beautiful delivery and because of the tension it started which carried on throughout the film. It made me uneasy and wary of Boromir and that made the film a lot more involving and enjoyable for me.
Kiss
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 19, 2003 10:20
As Faramirs_first_kiss says, I enjoyed this scene and I think that that Peter Jackson did a good job of adapting the imformation from the book to the movie. I miss Bilbo and his "I see what your saying..."in this scene, but it is still well done.
I also agree with Kiss about the cultures being so apparent in this scene. The way they carry themselves, their reactions, the clothes they are wearing, they are all so different and it is so cool to be able to see them all in one place. It adds to the urgency to see the extremely different cultures all uniting.
Anyway, I voted for the "By the blood of OUR people are your lands kept safe" it reflects the Gondorian attitude extremely well.
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: February 18, 2004 10:44
Figwit......i have one thing to say.....-bows down and grovels at the book moderator's feet-

Moving on.....i thoroughly enjoyed the Council scene because as a few others said it was very imporatant to the plot line of the movies. Aside from drooling over the Peredhil, i did enjoy the Gondor has no king, Gondor needs no king line.

(sorry so short...school ending)
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: February 19, 2004 02:06
It is an old topic, but I think the whole scene explains a lot of things, which are important for the other two and it gives a bunch of information about what happened in the past.
The hostility between Elves and Dwarfs, some info about Denethor's good qualities, the introduction of Aragorn being heir of Isildur and the "real" (?) start of the quest.
I voted none of the lines, for I think all are important.
Manephelien
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 20, 2004 01:29
All the lines are important, and I love the scene. For those who haven't read the book (and I started reading it two days after I'd seen FotR for the first time) it's a great introduction to the main characters.

However, one thing really bugs me. Where did Gimli's axe come from? When Frodo brought forth the ring and put it on the stone table, Gimli broke his axe when he tried to break the ring. Yet only a few minutes later he says "and my axe"... (I tried to find the Things that bug me in FotR thread, but it seems to have disappeared)

Precious!
Annûniel
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 20, 2004 02:14
There were so many important lines! Frodo's, "I will take the Ring to Mordor..." And then Pip's comic relief, "You need people of intelligence..."

But I chose, Aragorn's, "By my life or death, I can protect you. I will protect you. You have my sword..."

Its a very powerful line, showing how faithful the Fellowship would eventually become.
Figwit
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 20, 2004 10:51
However, one thing really bugs me. Where did Gimli's axe come from? When Frodo brought forth the ring and put it on the stone table, Gimli broke his axe when he tried to break the ring. Yet only a few minutes later he says "and my axe"... (I tried to find the Things that bug me in FotR thread, but it seems to have disappeared)


If you look closely, you'll see that Gimli takes the axe of his neighbour to try and crush the Ring.
Mearasiel
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 21, 2004 02:30
I think the whole scene was very strong because it was a major wakeup call to everyone. I picked Elrond's opening line because it sets the tone not only for the scene but also for the quest.
Scatha
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 22, 2004 03:50
I like the line from the EE:

*Gandalf stands up just as Boromir reaches for the ring.*

Gandalf: Ash Nazg durbatuluk! Ash Nazg gimbatul! Ash Nazg thrakatuluk! Agh burzum-ishi krimpatul! I do not ask your pardon, Master Elrond, for the Black Speech of Mordor may yet be heard in every corner of the West! The Ring is altogether evil.
Annûniel
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: August 22, 2004 04:25
Oh! I forgot one line... Its not listed so I guess I overlooked it. (I just watched FotR again today)

Sam: "Frodo's not going anywhere without me."

Just shows how amazingly faithful Sam is...
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Post RE: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: December 31, 2004 09:08
This is one of those rare times when I actually vote for Elrond. For one thing...it basically sets up the whole plot for the remainder of the story. And for another, I like it!!

P.S. Ooooohhh. Frodo said, "THOUGH..I do not know the way." I thought he said, "No..."
Sassyfriend
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Post Re: Sequence by sequence #12: The Council Of Elrond
on: September 20, 2012 10:42
I voted for Boromir's it is a gift. I think i would probly be just like that but also very afraid too
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