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Figwit
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Post 3.V: The White Rider
on: December 15, 2003 01:05
Okay, some points of interest:

- Tolkien tries to create some tension in this chapter: does he succeed and why (not)?
- How is Gandalf the White compared to Gandalf the Grey? What does he stand for, signifies? Had you expected his return?
- How do Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli react to Fangorn Forest? How is this different from Merry and Pippin's reaction?
- Gandalf's tale: do you like it? Would you have preferred to have read about it in more detail? Do you like Galadriel's cameo?

PBHf's Quote of the Week deals with a defenition of peril and Gandalf's change to White.

[Edited on 31/3/2004 by Figwit]
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: 3.V: The White Rider
on: December 17, 2003 06:02
Just a couple of short comments to the first two questions:

The first time I read this chapter, I could very well feel the tension caused by the appearing of the White Wizard, until his identity is revealed. I really couldn't expect Gandalf to return! For Gimli, the tension is still increased by the feeling that he's in a strange and even hostile environment. Now, of course, after several readings of the book, the surprise moment is gone, but at least for me, the tension still comes out from the text.

We already catch some glimpses of that, Gandalf the White is more powerful than Gandalf the Grey. He has proven himself trustworthy by his earlier actions, and is therefore sent back with enhanced powers that help him in fighting the Darkness; the Powers that sent him back can be sure that he doesn't misuse them. He still has humility, and doesn't think too much about himself: "I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but Black is mightier still."

(I'll return with a more profound post on a better time - right now, I'm leaving for the ROTK premiere in half an hour.)
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: 3.V: The White Rider
on: December 28, 2003 09:22
Well, I don't know if this is actually any more profound than my previous post but, as for the two remaining questions:

The reactions of the different characters to the forest quite strictly depend on how familiar they are with such an environment. Legolas, born and bred in the woods, and with a deeper understanding of forests than the others, feels at home at once. He can sense the "mood" of the forest, and knows that they must be alert, but there's no need to be afraid. Aragorn's reaction is quite neutral; he's been living for years in the wilderness, and to him Fangorn is hardly more than just a forest, although he also describes it as "a dark place". Gimli, who is totally on a foreign ground in a forest, is the only one who is really frightened - not even the hobbits were so, although they find the forest stuffy and a bit intimidating as well, at least until they get acquainted with Treebeard.

I think Gandalf's tale is told in a nearly perfect manner. We get to know what happened to him - but, enough is left for the reader's own imagination. (Personally, I don't like things to be descripted down to the smallest detail in literature - I want to form my own vision.) In this, the role of Galadriel as a "grey eminence" comes out very clearly; she may not be wielding a sword in the battlefield, but she is very strongly present in the background, giving counsel and, as the bearer of one of the Three, waging a sort of psychological war against Sauron - that was well described back in the FOTR, chapter The Mirror of Galadriel:
I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!
Eärnil_Captain_Of_Gondor
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Post RE: 3.V: The White Rider
on: January 05, 2004 06:54
That's right .
The main story gives Galadriel a smaller role than she actually has .
Gandalf , in contrast , stays active in the War , making plans to distract the Eye from " all else that is moving " .
The Lady and her husband also attack Dol Guldur , but I think it is good Tolkien kept that in the backstory .
In the LotR , Galadriel gives only counsel .
Why did Tolkien let Gwaihir bring Gandalf reborn to Lórien ?
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: 3.V: The White Rider
on: January 05, 2004 09:32
Why did Tolkien let Gwaihir bring Gandalf reborn to Lórien ?

The only places in Middle Earth where Gandalf could recover were Lórien and Rivendell, and Lórien was closer.

In my opinion, this is another good example of Galadriel's power, which mostly comes out between the lines. Notice that it was the Lady who sent Gwaihir to look for Gandalf; she must have had a vision of Gandalf's return. And, the eagles don't obey just anyone, only the Wizards and most powerful elves can ask them to do something.
Figwit
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Post RE: 3.V: The White Rider
on: January 06, 2004 08:17
I guess that's why Galadriel is such a powerful character: she only appears briefly, but you get this incredible sense of importance and power; mainly through little things like these.
tuttleturtle
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Post RE: 3.V: The White Rider
on: February 08, 2004 01:54
On the return of Gandalf, Tolkien was a very religious person. Sometimes to understand the book you need to learn about the author.
Sorry this isn't long.
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