Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » BC Archive: Lord of the Rings » Quote of the week - Jan 26 /04 (3.IX.)
Author Topic:
PotbellyHairyfoot
Grandpa Moderator
Posts: 2929
Send Message
Avatar
Post Quote of the week - Jan 26 /04 (3.IX.)
on: January 26, 2004 06:16
from TTT ChapterIX Flotsam and Jetsam
I don't know what Saruman thought was happening; but anyway he did not know how to deal with it. His wizardry may have been falling off lately, of course; but anyway I think he has not much grit, not much plain courage alone in a tight place without a lot of slaves and machines and things, if you know what I mean. Very different from old Gandalf. I wonder if his fame was not all along mainly due to his cleverness in settling at Isengard


How the mighty have fallen.

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by Figwit]
PotbellyHairyfoot
Grandpa Moderator
Posts: 2929
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week - Jan 26 /04 (3.IX.)
on: January 29, 2004 06:50
Saruman has seemingly sunk so low that even the hobbits think litle of him now. without his forces and helpers he doesn't impress them , whereas gandalf never needed anything but his own mind toimpress people.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week - Jan 26 /04 (3.IX.)
on: January 29, 2004 01:22
But it's also a false assumption. I think Merry and Pippin are only correct about Saruman's receeded powers by chance.

The way I see it, Saruman gave up power when he started to use technology - that's actually Horkheimer & Adorno's thesis about modernity (I should write an essay about that, if I find the time).

But that doesn't necessarily mean he actually lost his power: just like a man who starts using a calculator doesn't use his capacity to count in his head.

It's only by chance that Merry and Pippin are right: what they see is a wizard who's powerless against the Ents - but that's just because even Gandalf would be powerless against the Ents. That doesn't mean he's powerless per se.

Does this make sense?
PotbellyHairyfoot
Grandpa Moderator
Posts: 2929
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week - Jan 26 /04 (3.IX.)
on: February 01, 2004 03:48
It does make a lot of sense. Saruman may never have risen to his full potential because of his reliance on technology rather than his abilities. It is also true about him being powerless against the Ents but he did make a big mistake in not considering them as he went about his business.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week - Jan 26 /04 (3.IX.)
on: February 01, 2004 12:28
Yes, he did - I think that is Saruman's biggest blunder: he thought that with his knowledge and his technology he was surpassing anything ever done or wrought before - and in a way he was.

But on the other hand he was commiting a sin the Greeks call hybris, which is thinking or claiming you can do something better than the Gods. Saruman is not a God (or in Tolkien's terms, a Vala) - and he was correct I think to assume that his works are greater than the works of Elves and Men; but Ents are the works of beings surpassing him.

Pride is in the end what ruins Saruman, or at least that's how I see it.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email