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Figwit
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Post 3.X. The Voice of Saruman
on: February 09, 2004 01:14
1. Tolkien himself calls Saruman's voice 'persuasuve' rather than 'hypnotic'. Do you agree? How do you experience it?
Why is it that Gimli and Éomer are seemingly unaffected by the voice?
Why does it take Théoden so long to shake off the spell? What triggers his final response: Saruman's words, Éomer's words, or was he simply listening and waiting?

2. The Hobbits complain about staying behind on the stairs. Are they overestimating their own importance, or are they being underestimated by the others?

3. Why does Saruman have 'strands of black hair'?
'To heal the disorders of the world' - is this Saruman's ultimate motivation?
What kind of character is Saruman, and how is he compared to his brief appearance in 2.II. CoE?
Why does Saruman not accept Gandalf's offer at 'forgiveness'? How does this play within Tolkien's themes?

4. Treebeard seems a bit prejudice against Dwarves (just as Celeborn was in 2.VII). What does this say about Tolkien's perception of wisdom?

5. Why is there a bond between the Hobbits and Treebeard? How do you like his added verse?

Also check out PbHf's quote!

[Edited on 9/2/2004 by atalante_star]
atalante_star
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Post RE: 3.X. The Voice of Saruman
on: February 09, 2004 01:44
1. Tolkien himself calls Saruman's voice 'persuasuve' rather than 'hypnotic'. Do you agree? How do you experience it? Why is it that Gimli and Éomer are seemingly unaffected by the voice?
Why does it take Théoden so long to shake off the spell? What triggers his final response: Saruman's words, Éomer's words, or was he simply listening and waiting?

This is funny. I was thinking about this chapter the other day - particularly the encounter with Saruman, and to me, Saruman's voice seems more hypnotic than simply persuasive. For 2 reasons. Firstly this quote:
Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment.

And then Theoden:
"We will have peace," said Théoden at last thickly and with an effort. Several of the Riders cried out gladly. Théoden held up his hand. "Yes, we will have peace," he said, now in a clear voice, "we will have peace, when you and all your works have perished – and the works of your dark master to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar, Saruman, and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me, and I perceive only a finger of the claw of Mordor."

*thickly and with an effort* - that always suggests to me that he is having to overcome some power, rather than just rejecting a persuasive argument. After all his recent traumas with Grima, I don't believe that Theoden would fall so easily into Saruman's spell again (even momentarily) through just persuasion.

As for Eomer and Gimli, I would suppose it is because they are not essential to Saruman's plans. Eomer because he is not yet king, and Gimli because:
"I do not speak to you yet, Gimli Gloin's son," he said. "Far away is your home and small concern of yours are the troubles of this land.
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: 3.X. The Voice of Saruman
on: February 10, 2004 09:13
2. The Hobbits complain about staying behind on the stairs. Are they overestimating their own importance, or are they being underestimated by the others?

I see a bit of both here. Merry and Pippin did play a part in the events that led to the ruin of Isengard - but, they couldn't have done much anything in the confrontation with Saruman. As Aragorn put it in the previous chapter: "(...) and he had a power over the minds of others. The wise he could persuade, and the smaller folk he could daunt. That power he certainly still keeps." On the other hand, Merry and Pippin knew that Saruman could not be trusted, and who knows how resistant the mind of a Hobbit would be; maybe the others were underestimating them a bit just because of their small size...

3. 'To heal the disorders of the world' - is this Saruman's ultimate motivation?

I think this is what Saruman himself really believes, although he is basically driven by his lust for power. Everything would be perfect, if only he could rule the world his way.

What kind of character is Saruman, and how is he compared to his brief appearance in 2.II. CoE?

Saruman is a technocrat of the worst kind. He wants to be able to control everything; in his world, technology rules over nature, there's no place for anything that isn't thoroughly planned and carried out exactly by that plan. He has lots of knowledge, but has forgotten that also wisdom is needed. For him, the ends justify the means; he thinks that he can fool Sauron, take the One Ring for himself, and wield it for the good of the world as he sees it.

But in this chapter, he is not so self-assured any longer; in the end, all his machinery was no use against the enraged forces of nature, and his voice seems to be losing its power as well... Finally, the Wizard who wants to control everything, fails even to control his own performance.

From this character, we get some idea about the author's mistrust for technology. Sometimes I wonder, what might a man who (as much as I know) preferred letters over phone calls, think about people from different corners of the world discussing his works over a computer network...

Why does Saruman not accept Gandalf's offer at 'forgiveness'? How does this play within Tolkien's themes?


Saruman is proud and self-satisfied, and doesn't want to bow to anyone. Like Gandalf says: "He will not serve, only command." He simply doesn't seem to grasp that he's not at the top anymore, that Gandalf has become the White, and he himself is losing his power. As for many other great characters in Tolkien's universe, pride is the ultimate reason for his downfall - and when he falls, he falls hard.
Tel_Quessir
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Post RE: 3.X. The Voice of Saruman
on: February 13, 2004 08:31
5. possibly the old forest? there seems to be a connection there with the ent-wives, but i dont think it is every expanded upon
Figwit
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Post RE: 3.X. The Voice of Saruman
on: February 14, 2004 11:15
He has lots of knowledge, but has forgotten that also wisdom is needed.


ooh Morwinyoniel, I like the way you think
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