Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » BC Archive: Lord of the Rings » Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
Author Topic:
PotbellyHairyfoot
Grandpa Moderator
Posts: 2929
Send Message
Avatar
Post Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 14, 2004 06:58
From TTT The Passage of the Marshes
Normally I use one quote but I felt that quotes from both Sam and Frodo, about Gollum, would be more useful this time.
Sam
'Not too well,' thought sam.'He looks fair famished. Not too dainty to try what hobbit tastes like, if there ain't no fish, I'll wager- supposing he could catch us napping. well he won't: not Sam Gamgee for one.'

Frodo
'I'm sorry,' said Frodo; 'but i can't help you, I'm afraid. I think this food would do you good , if you would try. But perhaps you can't even try, not yet anyway.'
.

and
Sam
'We've got to get some sleep; but not both together with that hungry villain nigh, promise or no promise...'

Frodo
I don't think there is any need for fear - at present. still, watch if you wish...'

The two hobbits really differ as to how much trust they have in Gollum and his vow.
Why is that?



[Edited on 16/3/2004 by Figwit]

[Edited on 17/3/2004 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Luthien_Telperien
Council Member
Posts: 39
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 15, 2004 04:23
I don't think the answer to this one is actually very complex — it's a difference between the understanding Frodo gains of a fellow ringbearer and the understanding of one who has not had that experience. Frodo's position is complex, though: the ring gives him insight into Smeagol/Gollum's needs and personal tortures and dependencies, but it also takes that insight and uses it to blind Frodo to other possibilities.

At the same time, though, hasn't Frodo always been more trusting than Sam?
PotbellyHairyfoot
Grandpa Moderator
Posts: 2929
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 17, 2004 07:36
For Sam it may be simple- he is only looking out for the best interests of Frodo and he knows that he can never trust Gollum.
For Frodo, part of his reaction may be due to his belief in being fated to deliver the Ring to the Fires of Doom. He maybe convinced that there is a Reason for Gollum finding thenm just when they were lost and it seemed like they would never find there way to Mordor. He doesn't trust Gollum so much as he feels that they are all playing out roles and it is Gollum's role to help him complete his task.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 19, 2004 04:55
* enter Figwit's copyrighted essay on the different forms of knowledge within LOTR *

I've always believed that the reason why Sam and Frodo react so differently ties in with the way Tolkien portrays their intellectual differences: Frodo is focussed on lore, someone with higher knowledge; while Sam'll stick to common sense.
Sam's attitude is the most logical one and the one we'd all assume, but Frodo's might be inspired like (what Pb suggests) the idea that there is something driving it all. The words of Gandalf may have stuck with him after all, and that aside Frodo has more insight in history and legend than Sam. So we can assume that Frodo will judge on a more rational basis than Sam.

On the other hand one could argue that Frodo will be more emotional than Sam, because he begins to feel the weight of the Ring and is starting to understand Gollum - understand what he's been through. Maybe he also wants to keep Gollum close, for two reasons: to try and save him (because he wants to believe that he too can be saved) and to remind him of why he has to try and resist the temptation of the Ring.

Although all this could also make no sense at all .
k
Cavegirl
Posts: 1572
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 19, 2004 06:11
hmm im not convinced that frodo believes that he is "destined" to do anything.... the book doesnt focus on destiny, not really... its always free will and his own choice.

i think the differnce is that frodo just doesnt see gollum the same way as sam, sam is there to look out for his master, he sees gollum as a potential threat and the way he articulates that is in the "he might eat us" thing... whilst frodo isnt really looking out for anyone or anything, except maybe the ring, and he doesnt truely believe anyone could take it from him... so he doesnt see gollum as a real danger.
um did i make any sense
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 20, 2004 12:19
whilst frodo isnt really looking out for anyone or anything, except maybe the ring, and he doesnt truely believe anyone could take it from him... so he doesnt see gollum as a real danger.
um did i make any sense


Yes you did, but I don't really agree - I think one of the reasons why he might hold Gollum close is just to make sure he can keep an eye on him; and I think that even if he acknowledges Gollum's suffering and the potential to change back, he also knows that the creature's dangerous to him.
Ioreth_Fimbrethil
Council Member
Posts: 21
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 22, 2004 12:03

On the other hand one could argue that Frodo will be more emotional than Sam, because he begins to feel the weight of the Ring and is starting to understand Gollum - understand what he's been through. Maybe he also wants to keep Gollum close, for two reasons: to try and save him (because he wants to believe that he too can be saved) and to remind him of why he has to try and resist the temptation of the Ring.


I feel the same, Frodo has to believe that there's still hope for Gollum or he wouldn't have hope for himself. [that's one of the only things the movie got right as far as this trio's relationship goes!]

While I was reading this part the other night I remembered some things that I mean to add:
'I'm sorry,' said Frodo; 'but i can't help you, I'm afraid. I think this food would do you good , if you would try. But perhaps you can't even try, not yet anyway.'

The lembas obviously had a big role in the great resilience of the hobbits, apart from the fact that hobbits are stout creatures, the lembas must have sustained them in more ways than one. They are food for the body and for the soul, obviously Frodo understood this, he hopes to be able to help Gollum by showing him the "way back" from the darkness.

This is another thing I always liked in this chapter and missed in the movies (sorry if this is digressing) But the fact that Gollum can not stand light and can't even touch the eleven cloaks of Frodo and Sam is a very important aspect. He's gone so far into the darkness that he became part of it.

Does this make sense?

[Edited on 22/3/2004 by Ioreth_Fimbrethil]

[Edited on 22/3/2004 by Ioreth_Fimbrethil]
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quote of the week- March 15 th, 2004 [4.2.PoM]
on: March 22, 2004 01:33
But the fact that Gollum can not stand light and can't even touch the eleven cloaks of Frodo and Sam is a very important aspect. He's gone so far into the darkness that he became part of it.


That's a very good point! Things that would seems good and healing to all creatures, have a very different effect on Gollum. It also makes you wonder about the 'healing' capacities of all these objects, and of how irrevocable a change to evil really is: is there a way back for Gollum?
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email