Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » BC Archive: Lord of the Rings » 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
Author Topic:
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 26, 2004 12:11
1. Does Gollum understand Frodo saved his life or not? How did you feel about the 'trickery'?

2. Frodo overhears part of Gollum's chat with himself about the Hobbits and how he wants to throttle them. Why doesn't he respond to that?

3. What do you make of the following?
'It is called Cirith Ungol.' Gollum hissed sharply and began muttering to himself. 'Is not that its name?' said Faramir turning to him.
'No!' said Gollum, adn then he squealed, as if something had stabbed him. 'Yes, yes, we heard the name once...'


4. The forbidden pool itself - doesn't it sound incredibly dodgy? How does Tolkien describe it?

PbHf's quote of the Week deals with Faramir's leadership and the second one with Frodo's journey.

[Edited on 26/4/2004 by Figwit]

[Edited on 26/4/2004 by Figwit]
legolasfan27
Council Member
Posts: 74
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 26, 2004 08:53
1. I don't think Gollum understands Frodo saved his life. Probably to his mind he would have escaped the Rangers without Frodo's intervention. As for 'trickery', I thought, well how bright would you be at 4 or 5 a.m. in the morning, dead-tired and scared that the one person on whom you are depending for the fate of life as you know it, is about to get himself killed? Frodo did the best he could under the circumstances, in my opinion.

2. Not going to touch this one...I think I've said too often how naive I find Frodo's reaction to Gollum and his persistent belief that Gollum can be saved. It's one thing to dismiss a threat heard secondhand, it's another to dismiss after hearing it with your own ears...(*Note to self* It all works out in the end, repeat, it all works out in the end...)

3. To lift a quote from one of my favourite Dean Koontz, perhaps Faramir had a well-placed (that is, concealed) knife point that made its pain? :evil: I wish Tolkien had said.

4. What is up with the forbidden pool, anyway? What's so special about it? What did I miss about Minas Ithil and this pool? I'm in the dark on this one...
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 26, 2004 11:06
What is up with the forbidden pool, anyway? What's so special about it? What did I miss about Minas Ithil and this pool? I'm in the dark on this one...


Yeah, ditto...
michiel
Council Member
Posts: 4
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 28, 2004 11:05
3. About the conversation between Faramir and Gollum..
I understood that because Gollum had been there before he had bad memories of it. Faramir as a local in the area, or as local as anyone! knew of the stories and horrors of that pass.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 28, 2004 10:46
Ha michiel (are you Dutch perhaps?), I thought it was because maybe the Ring was pulling him, because he was lying again... but your explanation is a lot more plausibel.
Morwinyoniel
Gallery Admin & Realm Head of Estë
Posts: 1637
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 29, 2004 08:46
I've always thought that, Gollum never understood that Frodo actually saved his life by luring him into a trap, and that made him mistrustful and bitter, and caused the Gollum half to start taking more and more control again.

From the exchange between Faramir and Gollum, I get that, Faramir knows the horrible reputation of that place, but doesn't know exactly what is in there. Gollum knows - and, his Gollum half wants to deny knowing it because of what he is planning, but the Sméagol half feels guilty about those plans. So, he both admits and denies that he knows about it.

My, it's been a long time since I last had an opportunity to participate in the discussion...
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 29, 2004 10:09
Yeah, I missed having you around
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 749
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 30, 2004 05:05
Hello! I've read the books a few times, but I'll be reading along with the book club so I can look deeper into the books.

1. No, but I think he couldn't or subconsciously wouldn't understand real kindness

2. I think Frodo's reasons for not reacting to Gollum's talking to himself were the same as for not letting Faramir shoot Gollum. He knew Gollum's fate was involved in his and, as Gandalf said, Gollum still had a part to play.

3. I think, no offense intended, that it's kind of ridiculous that Faramir could have stabbed him. I thought it was the more honest side of his personality not wanting to lie, or thinking Faramir might find out if he lied, as he seemed to know anyway, or he thinks that he will be harmed down the road if he lies, and that Frodo and Sam will find out the name anyway.



[Edited on 30/4/2004 by LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan]
legolasfan27
Council Member
Posts: 74
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: April 30, 2004 07:53


3. I think, no offense intended, that it's kind of ridiculous that Faramir could have stabbed him.

[Edited on 30/4/2004 by LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan]


No offense taken on this side...really, that comment was just the bloodthirsty side of me taking over...I particularly dislike liars and so when Gollum lied at this point, I wished Faramir had stabbed him. Sorry. He probably was reacting to the Smeagol-side distress due to bad conscience or memories of what made Cirith Ungol such a horrible place.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: May 01, 2004 11:17
Welcome LadyEowyn!

Well, what I'm going to say goes back on something I said a while ago, but I'm convinced it's the Ring that makes Gollum flinch, and it would tie in with the idea of Sméagol feeling guilty because Sméagol swore on the Ring (not Gollum).
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 749
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: May 02, 2004 03:43
Figwit: Oh, I hadn't thought of that... that makes sense
legolasfan27: Lol, I wished quite a few times Farimir had stabbed Gollum, too. Maybe around the time of Bilbo's birthday party, and Gandalf could have just given Sam a map of Mordor and the surrounding lands and something to knock Frodo out if he wouldn't toss the ring in. But that's my bloodthirsty, idealistic side taking over.
k
Cavegirl
Posts: 1572
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VI. (The Forbidden Pool)
on: May 12, 2004 02:04
'It is called Cirith Ungol.' Gollum hissed sharply and began muttering to himself. 'Is not that its name?' said Faramir turning to him.
'No!' said Gollum, adn then he squealed, as if something had stabbed him. 'Yes, yes, we heard the name once...'


Its Smeagol in my opinion, he made the promise to his master and hes going to make the gollum part of him keep it as well...


Now i think about it, i wonder why the pool was forbidden specifically... perhaps its because Mordor has animals as spys and the pool is so close to the hideout that anything seen in there is probably a spy and therefore shot on sight...
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email