Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » BC Archive: Lord of the Rings » 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
Author Topic:
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 02, 2004 11:16
Pretty uneventful chapter, but still some questions may be discussed (and as ever, if you've got one of your own you'd like to add, pm me).

1. The parting of Faramir: how is it compared to those in Rivendell and Lórien?

2. The darkness falling: what is it? What does it symbolizes? How does it tie in with the story?

3. The King at the Cross-road: what is he doing there at this point in the story? What does he symbolise? PbHf's Quote of the Week deals with some lines of this passage.

[Edited on 4/5/2004 by Figwit]
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 02, 2004 11:22
1. I find it rather sweet how he 'embraces them after the manner of his people', and to do that he has to bend on one knee: stooping to their level. There was a wonderful discussion about this in the Movies Forum, but I can't find it now: about how many of the 'great' characters bow down to meet eye to eye with the Hobbits, how they humble themselves before someone they deem 'greater' (Aragorn does it twice, Gandalf does it for Bilbo, Galadriel does it for Frodo...).
I never noticed it in the book though, and when I was reading this passage to find questions it just struck me how that's exactly what Faramir's doing. Maybe he's not such a bad guy after all .

2. The 'cloud' (because from the description I take it it's something like a cloud) reminds me of the industrial smog Tolkien must have hated. I once saw a picture of Athens covered in this thick dark smog (it was from car exhaust) and that's what this reminds me of.
I guess it would fit the picture: Orodruin as this huge 'factory' of evil... I mean they must have industry in Mordor to build all their weapons, smithies... And since I'm convinced that Sauron represents industry and modernity, that would all tie in neatly with my vision on the book .

3. I don't really know what to say about the King, except that it's a beautiful passage and that I like the 'graffitti', it's a nice thouch .
Beleg_S
Elf of Beleriand
Posts: 193
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 02, 2004 11:57
Quite an uneventful chapter, yes, but a lovely one all the same (mainly because of the last page or so).

1. I like the respect that Faramir gives Frodo and Sam here: respect that they have earned in his company since the previous day when they first met. I think the main difference between this parting and the partings at Rivendell and Lórien is that this time, the Hobbits are on their own again. When leaving Rivendell, the journey had just begun and Frodo had the protection of eight other people; after Lórien, he had seven others people. Now, he's far more vulnerable. I particularly like the sentence, "They marvelled to see with what speed these green-clad men now moved, vanishing almost in the twinkling of an eye. The forest where Faramir had stood seemed empty and drear, as if a dream had passed." No more in his journey will Frodo be as safe, nor experience any sort of hospitality. This is, in some ways, the beginning of the end, to put it cheesily.

2. I agree 100% with what Figwit said, plus that I always think of the Shadow as the growing power of Sauron. As the Shadow looms further and further out, Sauron's potency is growing. It's a warning to his enemies: if you look at what is happening in Book V at that time, it looks to me as though Sauron is gloating to Gondor (and Rohan - the Shadow reaches all the way to Harrowdale, IIRC) about their inevitable doom. And in Book IV, it serves the purpose that I mentioned above for the first question: the journey into Mordor has begun, and Frodo, Sam and Gollum are more vulnerable than ever (which we see later when the reach Minas Morgul).

3. One of my favourite passages in the entire book. The King symbolises hope. In the midst of the Shadow and on the very edge of Mordor/Morgul Vale is this beautiful statue and crossroads. The statue has been deformed by Orcs, but the head still remains with the small white flowers growing over it: the white flowers that grow nowhere else but on the King's head. It reminds me of the passage later in the book, "...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach." This brief, uplifting moment gives Frodo inspiration, "They cannot conquer for ever!", but then, as if just to tell us (and them) that, although the Shadow may just be "a small and passing thing" it is still impending and not gone yet, "The Sun dipped and vanished, and as if at the shuttering of a lamp, black night fell." The Shadow is coming very close to destroying all beauty, which can now occasionally break out of the darkness and blossom. It's a very evocative image. This seems to be a theme that runs right through this chapter: great difficulty and despair tinged with hope.

Edit: *sigh* I told myself I wasn't going to write much here... I always seem to write too much.

[Edited on 3/5/2004 by Beleg_S]
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 03, 2004 03:57
Wow Beleg, you made me like that part even more !

Somehow I always linked it more to Aragorn than to the moment at hand, but I still had to think of the idea of hope. It is a very evocative moment, and I'm always astonished as to how short that passage really is, because in my mind it always seems to be this big scene - and it isn't. Shows you what a master Tolkien was, huh.
Morwinyoniel
Gallery Admin & Realm Head of Estë
Posts: 1637
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 04, 2004 06:54
An uneventful chapter maybe - but, there's all the time the feeling that, this is just a calm before the storm. The dark cloud rising from Mordor, the rolling and rumbling noises, the strange silence of the lands that should be full of life, the restlessness of the hobbits, Gollum disappearing for long times...

But, Beleg summed everything up so well that, I don't find anything to add - got to see if I can come up with an additional question...
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 04, 2004 10:31
Maybe I should just remove the 'uneventful' then huh?
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 749
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 05, 2004 01:50
2. Though his attack on **spoilers**

Minas Tirith hasn't begun (I think) Sauron's domination of Middle-Earth - of course he assumed he'd win - has begun, and he has started to make the world more like Mordor. He is spreading fear, and the darkness serves as foreshadowing of what wil - or didn't, but could - happen if Sauron wins the War of the Ring.

3. I agree with what's been said before, but I think the king represents Middle-earth. He was once something beautiful and glorious, but, though recoginizable, has been marred and made horrible by Orcs. It even has the Eye of Sauron on it! But "the king has a crown again", and Middle-Earth will heal and become as it used to.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 05, 2004 04:39
Oh, I do like that interpretation of the King, LadyEowyn! It's close to my idea that it's actually Aragorn , after all: Aragorn is the one who might heal Middle-earth, when he gets his crown back. In a way.
k
Cavegirl
Posts: 1572
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 12, 2004 01:56
I think that the king with his crown allows frodo to come to terms with his impending death (thats not a spoiler guys, Frodo truley believes hes going to die in the quest, im sure hes mentioned it before)... it ties in with the later talk about deeds going on after you die, i think hes working himself up to realise that even if he dies in the quest good will eventually conquer.... the hope given in this chapter isnt for himself- its for middle earth...

One other thing i like about the king and his crown- it kind of ties in with the industry theme that Figwit mentioned earlier in this thread- Crowns are traditionally manufacutred and yet... this king was recrowned by nature... ack i cant get my point across properly... think about it, you will see what i mean.
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: 4.VII. Journey To the Crossroads
on: May 12, 2004 11:44
One other thing i like about the king and his crown- it kind of ties in with the industry theme that Figwit mentioned earlier in this thread- Crowns are traditionally manufacutred and yet... this king was recrowned by nature... ack i cant get my point across properly... think about it, you will see what i mean.


That's a really nice interpretation k, I really like it (surprise). It's almost as if this King has the blessing of the world itself, of the living and growing things in it... If I can get back to my theory that the King is in fact Aragorn, that would (once again) point to the fact that he's not just a historical figure but that he plays a huge part in the greater scheme of things, in the handing over of Middle-earth from the Elves to the Men.

Also, it places him directly opposed to Sauron.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email