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"You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 02:53

is their a form for the plural 'your'?
As in a pronominal ending kinda thing.

Or have I just been looking wrong?

[Edited on 25/10/2004 by Malinornë]

EruantalincÃ«

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 03:45

You mean the possessive pronominal ending? I thought the ending -lya covers both singular and plural "you". Only if the noun where it refers to is plural/dual, there is a specific ending (-r for plural, -t for dual).

Like:
sambë (room)
sambelya (your room, singular: 1 room)
sambelyar (your rooms, plural: more rooms)
sambelyat (your 2-room appartment, dua

[size=1]Example taken from the "big" course [/size]

[Edited on 24/5/2004 by Eruantalincë]

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 09:10

im sorry, I wasn't very clear...
I meant the plural 'you' for a verb.
were you not dutch?
Ik bedoel de 2e persoon meervoud voor werkwoorden;
bijv: jullie weten
sorry for the dutch, but the dutch 2nd form plural is clearer than the english variant.

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 09:25

hey here's another question:
Is it possible to find a complete list of the conjugation of the verb?
I do think it would come in mighty handy

Lambengolmo

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 11:19

There are two prevailing theories on the Quenya second person plural.

Theory 1) Like English, Quenya doesn't seem to uphold any distinction between singular "thee" and plural "you" both are just -l or -lyë. Eruantalincë did mention this (see quote).

I thought the ending -lya covers both singular and plural "you"

Theory 2) The second person plural form is -llë with -lyë being distinctly singular.

I personally favour the first theory.

--------

You can get complete sample conjugations of nouns and verbs at Lambë Eldaiva (just click on one of the top two links)

[Edited on 24/5/2004 by Lambengolmo]

EruantalincÃ«

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 01:59

Well, the second form would work if it were a nominative plural. But in the possessive plural, I thought there was only one ending.

I checked it for you and I found this:

pronominal endings:
2. person sg and pl courteous: -l or -lyë, "you, thou"

There is also a very hypothetical ending for the 2nd person singular and plural familiar: -ccë, "you", but I think I like -lyë better.

(source: former >> Ardalambion<<, pronouns)

In the case of for example "you (pl.) know" it has to get clear from the complete sentence to find out if it is singular or plural, I'm afraid.

R2: you can ofcourse always pm me if you want to ask something in Dutch. That would be a little more polite to the others

dirk_math

Quenya Workbook Mentor
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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 24, 2004 10:03

The form with ending -ccë is indeed an informal 2nd person, but is only use in the singular, e.g. maticcë 'you eat'. This form should only be used if you know the person very well (compare with the French 'tu' or the German 'du').

In all other cases one should use the -lyë form. The -llë form is in 3rd Age Quenya not used anymore.

There exists a very good website of Alex de Grigny with an overview of the conjugation of the verbs:http://www.xs4all.nl/~xelag/quenya.html

YassÃ« engÃ« lÃ³mÃ«, anarties calali.

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 25, 2004 04:54

thanks alot ppl!
@eruantaincë: sure, i will

EruantalincÃ«

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 25, 2004 02:02

The form with ending -ccë is indeed an informal 2nd person, but is only use in the singular, e.g.

Really? Thanks Dirk, I did not know that (and I am a bit ashamed to admit I did not pay much attention to it either, for I prefer the form "-lyë"

).

[Edited on 26/5/2004 by Eruantalincë]

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 26, 2004 11:31

one more..

if you have a noun you want to change to a specific case, e.g. dative, and the word has an adjective tagging along, does the adjectiv change to dative too, or does it stay the same?

EruantalincÃ«

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 26, 2004 11:35

There are two ways and none of them is specificly right or wrong.

I suggest you check out lesson 17, the last declinable word, where it is all explained

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 26, 2004 11:37

thanks again!

Malinornë

FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & EldameldÃ«
Posts: 1205
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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 27, 2004 09:37

if you have a noun you want to change to a specific case, e.g. dative, and the word has an adjective tagging along, does the adjectiv change to dative too, or does it stay the same?

I just want to add that you may use the dative ending with either the noun ("normal") or the adjective (if it follows the noun), but not both.

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 27, 2004 09:48

wow thanks, i didn't realize that.

Thats pretty helpful, because in greek and latin(both of which i have lessons) do do that, they put both the noun and the adjective in a specific case

dirk_math

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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: May 27, 2004 11:50

Here are a few examples: (all in the dative, but the same story is of course valid in the other cases)

morë roccon - rocco morin (singular)
mori roccoin - roccor morín (plural)
mori roccont - roccot morint (dual)

remarks:
- adjectives on -ë are declined as i-stem substantives e.g. lírë, líri- 'song'
- when the ending is applied to the adjective the substantive only gets the plural or the dual ending
- the dual ending is visible with the substantive, the dual endings of the adjective are applied to the plural form
- adjectives only have t-duals, no u-duals

The demonstrative pronouns sina 'this/these', tana 'that/those' and enta 'yonder' are always put behind the substantive so they always take the case endings:
rocco sinan, roccor tanain, roccot entent

The present participle is preferentially put behind the substantive (this isn't an iron rule, but in all examples known it is behind the substantive). So present participles also take the case-endings but present particples don't have plurals or duals, so they are always singular.
rocco cápalan, roccor cápalan, roccot cápalan

The adjectives on -n most likely are declined as hen, hend- ; because their declension in Qenya had an additional -d-:
rocco firinden, roccor firindin, roccot firindin

Exceptions:
The adjectives on -ëa don't take case endings. In this case, you still apply the case ending to the substantive:
roccon laurëa, roccoin laurië, roccont laurië

When the substantive is in the partitive plural, the case endings are also applied to the substantive and not to the adjective:
roccolin altë

YassÃ« engÃ« lÃ³mÃ«, anarties calali.

PhantomElf

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Posts: 53
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RE: "You" and "Your"
on: April 30, 2005 08:41

[Edited on 15/5/2005 by PhantomElf]

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