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Xith
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Post Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 09:33
Hi all,

I am attempting to translate "pathfinder" into Quenya and I am having a little dificulty. Can some one give me a hand?

My first approach was to translate it more literally as "Finder of paths" but I am having difficulty with the -er form of verbs. I know how to make a verb into a noun like if I was trying to say something like "the finding of the path was difficult" or I could say something like "he who finds paths" but I am trying to stay away from gender or number specific pronouns.

-am I missing something dumb?
Lambengolmo
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 10:32
The Quenya equivilant of the agentive ending -er in English is -mo. "Pathfinder" could then be rendered as something like Hirmo Tieron (which is "finder paths-of"). The -mo ending is mainly associated with the male gender, but it is also used in contexts where both sexes are intended. The strictly female version is -më.

If you would rather say "s/he who finds paths", then that would be Eryë i Hirir Tier.
Xith
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 11:35
Thank you very much.

If you do not mind me asking, what reference did you use to obtain your answer? I have been using the Quenya course from Ardalambion but could not find it anywhere in there. Did I miss it or are there better gramar resources?
Tyrhael
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 12:00
Xith: Have you noticed the list of Quenya affixes at Ardalambion? Endings like -mo are covered. http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/affix~1.htm
Xith
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 04:36
No I had missed that page entirely. Again thank you very much. It clarified a few things I was having trouble with.
Malinornë
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 06:19
If you would rather say "s/he who finds paths", then that would be Eryë i Hirir Tier.


I think you meant to use the singular "hirë"
dirk_math
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 09:41
The problem with hirmo tieron is that when you make a verb into a verbal noun the meanings of genitive and possessive change.

When you use the genitive it becomes a subject-genitive this means that the thing after 'of' performs the action of the verb. So in this case this would mean that the paths do the finding. So one could have e.g. hirmo naucoron 'the finder of the dwarves', this would be the Dwarf that had the job of finding things (and not the person that found the Dwarves).

As this is obviously not the case, you should use an object-possessive, because the possessive after a verbal noun means that the word undergoes the action of the verb: hirmo tíva.


[Edited on 4/6/2004 by dirk_math]
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: June 03, 2004 10:33
Dirk is correct about the cases. I wrote something to someone else, but it is on the public forum:
http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=15923It is about verbal nouns and cases.
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: Verbal Nouns and Gerunds in Quenya
on: October 25, 2004 10:03
Aiya,
I have problems with my pm-function :cry:, so I cannot reply .

About your question about to change the verb "varya-" into a noun:
You can change it by adding "-lë" to the stem: varya- > varyalë (literal: the protecting). This creates a "verbal or abstract noun", a noun derived from a verb which is (ofcourse) related to the action of the noun. This is taken from the line "I nurtalë Valinoréva", which means "the hiding of Valinor".

Notice that it depends on the function of the described noun wether there is a genitive or possessive case needed. When the noun is the subject of the sentence, the genitive case is added to it. When the noun is the object of the sentence, then the possessive case is added.
Like:
The protection of (by) the Dwarf (the Dwarf protects something - Dwarf is subject):
I varyale Naucoro > genitive case
The protection of the Dwarf(the Dwarf is protected by someone else - Dwarf is object):
I varyale Naucorwa > possessive case

Verbal nouns can also be formed with the affixes -më, -ië and -ë. For further information, see also lesson 12.

[Edited on 30/5/2004 by Eruantalincë]

[Edited on 17/7/2004 by Malinornë]
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