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atalante_star
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Post The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 11, 2004 04:20
About the end of Boromir:

"He floated by them, and slowly his boat departed, waning to a dark spot against the golden light; and then suddenly it vanished. ... But in Gondor in after-days it long was said that the elven-boat rode the falls and the foaming pool, and bore him down through Osgiliath, and past the many mouths of Anduin, out into the Great Sea at night under the stars."


The implication there is that although he couldn't go to Valinor or Tol Eressea, he did end up sailing West in a way.

So we have ...

Gandalf - Valinor
Frodo - Tol Eressea then mortal death - and whatever ever fate there is outside the world
Sam - Tol Eressea (?) then mortal death - and whatever ever fate there is outside the world
Legolas - Valinor / Eressea (?)
Gimli - Valinor (?) / Eressea (?)
Boromir - the Sea
Aragorn - mortal death - and whatever ever fate there is outside the world and a possible / probable / definite (depending on your point of view) meeting up with Arwen
Merry - mortal death - and whatever ever fate there is outside the world
Pippin - mortal death - and whatever ever fate there is outside the world

Anyone feel a bit sorry for Pippin and Merry? Do you think the lack of any special "after-death" experience says something about Tolkien's feelings for them, or their position in the Fellowship?

[Edited on 11/6/2004 by atalante_star]
Figwit
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 11, 2004 04:44
I don't think Boromir sailed West as much as returned to the Sea. After all, he's a steward of Gondor (or part of that House), and in that respect he's also a descendant of Númenor, though you wouldn't say it . Maybe he's just 'going home'.

And I don't think Merry and Pippin weren't important to Tolkien, they were more than important: they were immortalised in a sense because they don't die. All the characters you listed are in one way or the other defined by their death:

- Gandalf: he dies twice! He dies, returns, and then sails west yet again (we can only assume he was there before). He is a Maia, a very powerful spirit, who comes and goes through life and death as fate orders him to.

- Frodo and Sam (and Bilbo) are 'Ring-bearers', and this again is symbolised by their symbolic death in Tol Eressea. They will end up in plain old Dullsville, Hobbit Heaven, just like the others; but they cannot live their live completely in this world. They cannot find closure here.
By being contamined by the Ring, they have died before their time.

- Legolas, of course, is an Elf. He's bound to be sailing West, the defining thing about his sailing west (his symbolic death) is the fact that it's postponed: the last ship to leave, built with his own hands, because he wouldn't leave his king and perhaps also because he wouldn't leave life having only just discovered it.

- Gimli is defined in a double way by his 'symbolic death': his love for Galadriel and his special bond with Legolas.

- Aragorn, of course, just lays himself down and drops off. His death is the real end of the War of the Ring, in him both the new and the old are mingled, and with him one world dies and another is born. In a way, his death is the most crucial of them all, and it's also the most mortal: there is no 'sailing into the West' for him, not small lingering in a place beyond his attaining. He just dies, but of course has the prospect of being reunited with Arwen.

The way I see it, Merry and Pippin are immortalised by not dying. Their death does not come into their biographies in the Encyclopedia , it's not relevant for their characters, in other words: they don't have to die, to be significant or complete.
The completian of their characters lies in this life and this life alone: in their achievements and the evolution they went through.

Did all of that made sense?
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 11, 2004 05:54
According to the LOTR appendix it is only a tradition that Sam sailed into the west as the last of the ringbearers. Would he be received in Tol Erresea? It is true that he was a ringbearer but he did not bear it for a long enough time to interfere with his normal aging, as did Bilbo, or suffer grievous permanent injury becuse of it, as did Frodo. Out of all the Hobbits in the Fellowship, Sam did rather well after the end of the War of The Ring, becoming mayor for seven terms.
Here's something else to consider; Legolas didn't make his boat and sail away with Gimli until after the King Elessar was laid to rest with the remains of Merry and Pippin. Could he have been waiting for the king's death and sailed away as a way of showing the final dissolution of the Fellowship and allowing the Fourth Age to continue on without any of the heroes of the Third Age remaining; sort of a way giving a finality to the end of the fellowship .
The fact that the bodies of Merry and Pippin were laid to rest alongside that of Aragorn shows that they were held in very high regard, at least in their adopted lands if not quite as highly regarded in the Shire, where I should note that they did achieve high status in their own families, Merry becoming the master of Buckland and eregrin becoming the Took and Thain. I guess that would only make their status only slightly less than that achieved by Sam. They didn't sail away, but neither did Aragorn.

Perhaps we should consider that Gandalf, Bilbo, and Frodo, along with Galadriel and Elrond, finished their roles on Middle-Earth, after the destruction of The Ring and it was necessary, in some way, for them to sail away, marking the end of the Third Age. The remainder of the members of the Felowship all had roles to play in the forming of the world of the Fourth Age and theire leaving Middle-Earth marked the end of the transition to the Fourth Age.
Aervir
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 11, 2004 10:57
Hmm, I have a question concerning this topic: I have always wondered about Gimli. Does he, too, die after a while in Valinor, or what happens when dwarves go west?
Eressëa
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 11, 2004 11:09
Hmm, I have a question concerning this topic: I have always wondered about Gimli. Does he, too, die after a while in Valinor, or what happens when dwarves go west?

I'd say they die too, since they're mortal. But of course he wouldn't die as early as Bilbo and Frodo, since Dwarves live longer.

As for the thought on Merry and Pippin not experiencing any greatness after the Fellowship, I pretty much agree with Potbelly and Figwit.
Merry and Pippin didn't need the afterlife experience because none of them were really scarred after the War of the Ring. Frodo and Bilbo were of course bestowed a great gift in being allowed to come to Tol Eressëa, but hadn't they sacrificed much to come there? They had lost so much of themselves while being Ringbearers that they had need of some sort of closure, of rest... This was given to them, but only because they wouldn't be able to live happily ever after in ME as Pippin and Merry.
Well, I think my mind is getting blurry, so I'll need to think more on this before ending this, but tomorrow will be the time...
atalante_star
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 12, 2004 12:09
Hmm, I have a question concerning this topic: I have always wondered about Gimli. Does he, too, die after a while in Valinor, or what happens when dwarves go west?

Dwarves believe that their spirits are gathered in separate halls in Mandos to await the End when they will aid Aulë in fixing things up. There is also the notion of reincarnation in the race, at least in the case of Durin, who was said to have been reborn a number of times.

So, if that was actually what happened, and was not just a set of dwarven myths, then dwarves would indeed have to die, at the end of a long life. And I would guess that was Gimli's fate.
Aervir
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 12, 2004 01:09
Thanks for the information! But we don't know whether Gimli was gathered to the Halls of Mandos or whether he was reincarnated, do we?
atalante_star
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 12, 2004 01:16
Thanks for the information! But we don't know whether Gimli was gathered to the Halls of Mandos or whether he was reincarnated, do we?


No, we don't Well, at least I've never heard it mentioned lol
Nikkili
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 12, 2004 05:23
PbHf-
According to the LOTR appendix it is only a tradition that Sam sailed into the west as the last of the ringbearers. Would he be received in Tol Erresea?

It is true that he was a ringbearer but he did not bear it for a long enough time to interfere with his normal aging, as did Bilbo, or suffer grievous permanent injury becuse of it, as did Frodo. Out of all the Hobbits in the Fellowship, Sam did rather well after the end of the War of The Ring, becoming mayor for seven terms.


Hiya Pb

Although it's only tradition that has Sam going over the Sea, I really think that he, of all people, would have been given that honor, and received warmly. Although he only physically bore the ring for a very short time, he bore it by proxy, through the entire journey. Gandalf personally entrusted Frodo's welfare to Sam. Sam became a gardian, instead of a gardner.

Sam, more than any other character, became the hero that we would like to be. He rose above one of the most simple stations in life, even for a Hobbit.

If it were not for Sam, Frodo likely would not have been able to complete his journey. Sam was the one person Frodo ultimately trusted. He held the position of friend, protector, and confessor, this last by being privy to Frodo's most tortured thoughts.

And during a time when Frodo found he could no further, Sam carried him. For a while, only one set of footprints marked the volcanic dust on Mt. Doom's slopes.

I believe Middle-Earth owed a very special debt to Sam. Yet he was so humble, so non-assuming, and so little fanfare was made at the time of his disappearance from Middle-Earth, that perhaps his end should be the most obvious of all. Yet Tolkien more or less leaves it up to us, to decide whether to hold with tradition, burying Sam's end in a clutter of cold, unemotional historical notes.

I wonder if, in a subtle way, Tolkien gives us a great responsibility, a hidden choice of our own, to make.

I know where I'd want Sam Gamgee to be.

~Nikkili~


[Edited on 12/6/2004 by Nikkili]

[Edited on 12/6/2004 by Nikkili]
JayPetey
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 15, 2004 03:49
I have heard many, many different things. I heard, from what I am sure is "Tolkien Approved" that The Undieing Lands are a somewhat heaven, seeing how only those who can come to it are only those who are summond. And at this pardise, You live forever...even mortals.

This has been very confusing...From everything I read, it is different. Things read like "...and there he still lives today." and "...to find an alternitave death." And somewhere in the book I remember a small thing that Tolkien wrote that "...[Frodo and Bilbo still live in this land over the sea untouched by man.]"

And there have been many books that fill in details not said by Tolkien just to fill in details which are lies, vicous lies precouis

I only read books that were looked over by John and Chris Tolkien themselves.

The Complete Guide to Middle Earth
The Tolkien Companion
and of course, The Lord of the Rings.

So...yeah.
atalante_star
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 15, 2004 07:48
I have heard many, many different things. I heard, from what I am sure is "Tolkien Approved" that The Undieing Lands are a somewhat heaven, seeing how only those who can come to it are only those who are summond. And at this pardise, You live forever...even mortals.


The Undying Lands are - in a way - both heaven and hell (or really, purgatory I suppose) - especially for the elves. When elves die, their souls go to the Halls of Mandos, where they spend a time reflecting on their previous life, and making their peace with themselves and others. When that period ended, they could either be reborn into Middle-earth or stay in the Blessed Realm - which would then be an equivalent of Heaven.

However, naughty elves like Feanor never managed to leave the Halls of Mandos, and a sentence of constant self-scrutiny and anger until the end of the world seems to me pretty much like a version of hell.

As for mortals going there, there is a big thread on the subject here. But basically, mortals were only allowed to stay in the Blessed Realm or Tol Eressea by specific invitation. But they did *not* live forever. They lived their normal life span, but lived in a healing and peaceful place.

I only read books that were looked over by John and Chris Tolkien themselves.

The Complete Guide to Middle Earth
The Tolkien Companion
and of course, The Lord of the Rings.


I wouldn't necessarily trust the Complete Guide to ME and the Tolkien Companion. the Companion is better than the Complete Guide, but both do have a good number of mistakes in .....
AinarielPalantir
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 16, 2004 11:41
My very simple thoughts about things. Hope this makes any sense.

I see that there were two different "fate paths" in LotR. The mortal world and the elven world. When the time comes, Elves sail to the west and mortals will be buried as honorably as they can be.

Now Merry's and Pippin's fates were more bound to Aragorn and Théoden, mortal world and the War itself, but Sam's and Frodo's were more bound to the Ring and therefore to the good ringbearers and the elven world.

So when Frodo, and I believe also Sam, were allowed to sail to the west, it was the highest honour that could be admitted to them for their merits conserning the destruction of the Ring because their paths crossed so much with the elven world.

But because Merry and Pippin were a big part in the War and helping Aragorn, the highest honour for them was to be buried next to their King. So there would have been no point in them sailing to the west because their paths were always straight with men and their Kings.

So I really think that Tolkien appreciated both destinies as much, they were only different. So I think Merry and Pippin didn't need any special "after-death" experience because although their death was simple but their graves were in the most honourable place possible for them, next to their king they had served.
Eressëa
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 17, 2004 06:41
Yay for good theories!!!!!!:disco: This one was really nice, the only thing it leaves un-explained is this, then. What about Gimli? And Boromir, both of these go West, whether in death or while still living, but they weren't really connected with the Ring -Boromir might have wanted the Ring but he was still more a man of Gondor than of Elven things.... And Gimli, he might have befriended Elves but weren't he too a warriors man????
atalante_star
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 17, 2004 07:16
Hmmmm now I've decided I really like Ainariel's theory, I suppose I'd better think about these ...

Gimli I think is easier. 2 words - Legolas, Galadriel. Would he want to leave Legolas? Would he want to once again see Galadriel? Furthermore, the souls of dwarves are thought to inhabit separate chambers of the Halls of Mandos, so whether he dies in Eressea or ME will make little difference to what he considers will happen to him after death. I think for someone whose maybe greatest achievement during the WotR was the bringing together of two traditional enemies - what more suitable reward could there be than sailing West with his friend?

Boromir .... I'll have to think more about that :dizzy:
arvegil
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 18, 2004 06:02
The abandoned Epilogue to ROTK, which can be found in Vol. IX of HoME, makes a reference to Sam being called to sea and to the West. Even when he was raising his family and was still youngish, he still felt the Sea calling to him. I think the implication there is that, when he went west, it was to go to sea out of the Havens.
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 18, 2004 10:28
I wonder if, in a subtle way, Tolkien gives us a great responsibility, a hidden choice of our own, to make.
I love the idea that it's the reader's choice.

For Frodo, sailing to the Undying Lands was the "right" ending. He was scarred by his carrying of the Ring and couldn't truly enjoy his life. For other characters, like Aragorn, his fate was tied into Middle-earth's fate - his mortal death after being king of Arnor and Gondor was the "right" end. There was no reason for him to sail.
But what about Sam? His fate was tied into the mortal world, as he became mayor and had a happy life in Hobbiton. But, after bearing the Ring for a short time and travelling to Mordor with Frodo, could he ever be completely content without him? Was he too, in a way, scarred by the Ring? I prefer to think Same eventually sailed.
AinarielPalantir
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 19, 2004 01:03
Yes, Gimli. I was thinking about that but then I forgot it.

Gimli I think is easier. 2 words - Legolas, Galadriel. Would he want to leave Legolas? Would he want to once again see Galadriel? Furthermore, the souls of dwarves are thought to inhabit separate chambers of the Halls of Mandos, so whether he dies in Eressea or ME will make little difference to what he considers will happen to him after death. I think for someone whose maybe greatest achievement during the WotR was the bringing together of two traditional enemies - what more suitable reward could there be than sailing West with his friend?


That was what I was also thinking. He kind of reunited dwarves and elves and spent the rest of his days with Legolas so although he was a traditional warrior of the world of men, his path crossed with the elven world so much that the right reward for him was to let him sail to the West with Legolas.

But Boromir... Well. They were out there in their journey so he couldn't have gotten a "normal" funeral of men and Aragorn did what he thought was the most honourable way to bury him in those circumstances. Tolkien then wrote a different but still an honourable way to go. Somehow a mysterious end I think. You can't really tell where he did end up. As you can't say where he would have ended up if he had lived a whole life.

Not very "professional" opinions but here they are anyway
Miredhel_of_Gondolin
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 19, 2004 09:01
In reply to something PotbellyHairyfoot said way back when, about Legolas waiting till Aragorn was dead to leave... it does seem like the *climactic* end of the Fellowship was when Aragorn died. :cry: Tolkien wrote all about his death, and what he said, and what Arwen said, etc. But when it comes to Legolas and Gimli sailing to Valinor, it just gets a mention in the Appendices (as far as I know). It's like Tolkien meant to emphasize the "first" end more than the "last" one, although he does say that Legolas' departure marked the end of that age.

Sam definitely belongs in Valinor, if anyone does. He didn't carry the ring much, per se, but he went through as much as Frodo did: just in a different way. Frodo had that inward struggle, the Ring's terrible burden, while Sam had to choose to stay with Frodo. The more I think about it, the more I say Sam is the hero of LOTR!

I love Ainariel's theory. :love: Very nice for un-philosophical blondes when smart people put things simply. And I think I finally have the after-life thing sorted out - I may even know what the Halls of Mandos are now!

~*Miredhel
Lela333
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 19, 2004 09:44
PErsonally, i like to think they [b][/b]all went to the undying lands and where together again. evern and specially Aragorn and Arwen.
atalante_star
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 19, 2004 10:13
As nice as it would be to believe that .... its basically impossible. Humans do *not* end up in the undying lands - that is one of the central tenets of Tolkien's whole mythology.

You might like to read through our Life after death thread
arvegil
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 21, 2004 09:13
Also, with regard to the Undying Lands, a lot of people see the bait, but not the hook...
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: June 21, 2004 05:13
I see that there were two different "fate paths" in LotR. The mortal world and the elven world. When the time comes, Elves sail to the west and mortals will be buried as honorably as they can be.

I can almost agree with that except that i'm sure that for many elves, the time never came and they never felt any urge or desire to leave Middle-Earth. After the War of the Ring, Thranduil stayed in Eryn Lasgalen and I don't recall anything about his leaving. Most of the elves of Lothlorien moved to their new home of East Lorien. After Galadriel left, Celeborn stayed on in East lorien for a while but later moved to Rivendel and stayed with the sons of Elrond. Legolas founded a new community of elves in Ithillien and although he sailed away, I recall no mention of the rest of his community also leaving . I am also not sure if all of the elves of Lindon sailed into the west or if many of them stayed nehind..
As far as I am concerned there were still 5 communities of elves in the Fourth age- Lindon, Imladris ( Rivendell), Eryn Lasgalen ( Mirkwood), East Lorien and Ithillien. These were most likely populated with elves that never been to Valinor and had no desire to go there. Galadriel left rather than see her people dwindle and become a rustic folk , but I'm sure that many elves didn't mind this happening to them.
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: April 08, 2009 05:57
I think that the ultimate fate of Hobbits after death is the same Gift (or curse, however you look at it) of Men....am I right? I'm not sure if I've read it or not, but it would make sense that Hobbit's shared the same fate as Men. Obviously, they are not mentioned in the creation recounted in the Silmarillion...but I've always held a vague idea that Hobbit's are...a sort of strain of the race of Men.
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: May 03, 2009 06:28
I think that Sam did go to the Undying Lands, as people have said, I think that without Sam the Ring may not have ever made it to Mordor. I like the idea of Boromir 'going home', heading more for the Sea than for the Undying Lands.
This is the first time I've ever really considered the fates of Elves and Dwarves being linked- it's as if I'd heard of them going to separate Halls of Mandos but it's never actually registered before. ~x~
Trignifty
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: May 14, 2009 08:04
I'd like to preface this with saying it's been a few years since I've read the entire trilogy through, so please bear with me...


Sam may have carried the Ring for a very short duration--but it was an incredibly important duration. I suppose I can agree that as a support system Sam was indispensable but I would also argue that Sam carrying the Ring WHEN he did was incredibly important. Had he not taken it, the entire Quest would almost certainly have been lost. And again, when Frodo became too weak to carry on and Sam carried Frodo. He steps in at crucial moments, and that should count for something..

One thing I find sort of interesting to think about, in regards to him not carrying the Ring long enough to truly be affected is the suggestion that as the Ring travels closer to Mordor to either reunite with its Master or meet its doom, it becomes harder to carry, enforces a stronger will upon its bearers. The Ring is characterized moreso than some living characters we meet in the book--it has a personality and it manipulates at will. So is there something to be said for Sam, who carried the Ring at a very dangerous time compared to..say..Bilbo--who carried the ring for yeears..but was never consciously aware the the Ring was evil? I mean Bilbo never woke up one night and found himself sleepwalking to Barad-Dur (...so far as I know...). Sam carried the Ring on the Quest and Bilbo carried the Ring around his garden. That's not to say Bilbo isn't important. He is. He safeguarded the thing for quite some time but ultimately the best help gives to the welfare of ME is giving the Ring away though no easy task.

I would agree that the Ring itself did not directly cause any grievous harm to Sam but indirectly it probably caused him to need some form of Hobbit-therapy (which probably entails the Green Dragon and a barrel..) for the rest of his days in the Shire. He was the only being aside from Frodo who really experienced the full Quest. Whether that means emotional trauma indirectly caused by the Ring is more or less debilitating than emotional trauma caused directly by the Ring actually is somewhat neither here nor there. So I would hope he'd be called and received at the Undying Lands. He put up with way too much.
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: May 21, 2009 03:29
This is an interesting thread. I just have a question/comment which may be way off topic here. Does anyone remember what happened to Beren & Luthien? (My copy of the Silmarillion is still packed away somewhere.) I've always felt that Aragorn's & Arwen's fates would be the same. But, as I'm typing this, I'm talking myself out of this idea because I don't recall Tolkein writing anything about this in the appendix.
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: May 22, 2009 01:38
Lúthien chose to become mortal because of her love for Beren, and after they died, their spirits went where the spirits of mortals go, leaving Arda for good (unlike the spirits of the elves which were bound to Arda for as long as it lasted). The story of Aragorn and Arwen does indeed reflect the story of Beren and Lúthien which was only referred to in the LOTR, in the lay sung by Aragorn at Weathertop.
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: October 23, 2009 03:58
One of Tolkien's important themes was that of Faith and Hope. The mortals in his works, i.e. those who can die; ... Men, Hobbits, Dwarves, ... need to have faith that Eru has some destination for them beyond death, be it reincarnation, a New Music, etc.

The elves also need faith, but they must wait within the world until Eru brings it to an end. The longer they wait, the more room there is for doubt. Hence death has been called the gift of men.

Merry and Pippin, were initially too young and bold to consider their own mortality, but their experiences taught them much, and they saw faith in action, through Gandalf and Aragorn and Theoden. All believed that death was not the end. I think that will have rubbed off on the two hobbits.

Apart from Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo and Sam were the only mortals to have worn the ring and seen into the "world-between" which was a weary, deathless trap. I think it's for that reason that they need that healing, cleansing time in the Undying Lands so that they may die "in sure and certain hope" of something beyond.

It occurs to me that Sam was the only ring-wearing mortal to become a parent ... and all his children had a little extra something about them and introduced a special strain into the hobbit gene-pool. Perhaps they continued growing taller and more slender down the generations until they merged with modern Men. Oooh!
cirdaneth
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: February 13, 2011 08:33
*bump*
asea_aranion
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: August 01, 2011 11:25
As for mortals going there, there is a big thread on the subject here. But basically, mortals were only allowed to stay in the Blessed Realm or Tol Eressea by specific invitation. But they did *not* live forever. They lived their normal life span, but lived in a healing and peaceful place.


That makes me sad, because my first thought upon reading that was "Oh no, what if Frodo had already died by the time Sam left the Shire for the Tower Hills?!"

However, I will choose to believe that Sam did sail, and that Frodo was there when he got there.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: August 01, 2011 12:41
Wow!! I wrote some interesting posts seven years ago.

I still have the same opinions; 1) The Fellowship members, and associates, that sailed away did so because their roles were completed and to mark the end of the Third Age, while the others stayed because they all had roles in establishing the Fourth Age; 2) there were five colonies of Elves during the 4th Age, and they mostly consisted of Elves that had never been anywhere other than Middle-earth and were content to live the 'rustic' life that Galadriel left to avoid.

I had never considered the posibilty that Frodo could have passed away before Sam left Middle-earth. I've always assumed that Frodo kept the Ring in his possession long enough to extend his life by several decades.
asea_aranion
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Post RE: The ends of the Fellowship
on: August 02, 2011 03:27
I never considered that possibility until just now...

Sam leaves for the Grey Havens at age 102... Frodo was 12 years older than Sam, meaning that he would be 114.

Bilbo made it to at least 131, so I guess it's fair to assume that Frodo would easily still be alive at that point, but Bilbo did have the ring for 60 years longer than Frodo did...

Like I said, I'm chosing to believe that Sam got to chill out with Frodo for a while because the thought of it not working out that way just makes me sad. Hahaha.
cirdaneth
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on: June 06, 2014 12:41
Hmmm! Puzzled!
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