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Forum Home » Books Discussion » BC Archive: Lord of the Rings » Quote of the Week- July 5th 2004 (5.VII. The Pyre of Denethor)
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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post Quote of the Week- July 5th 2004 (5.VII. The Pyre of Denethor)
on: July 05, 2004 03:01
Denethor;
'But I say to thee, Gandalf Mithrandir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the House of Anárion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Isuldur. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity'



Are these his true feelings or are they due to outside influences?
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: Quote of the Week- July 5th 2004 (5.VII. The Pyre of Denethor)
on: July 05, 2004 03:59
Neither... I'll explain tomorrow because I'm way too tired to write sensibly and I like leaving you in suspense.
Edit: I don't like my initial idea; I have no idea as to the question; never mind.

[Edited on 9/7/2004 by LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan]
legolasfan27
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Post RE: Quote of the Week- July 5th 2004 (5.VII. The Pyre of Denethor)
on: July 06, 2004 09:14
I'll go with both.

It seems to me that Denethor resents the fact that Isildur's house retains the right to rule though they have not exercised it in so long ("long bereft of lordship"), whereas the Stewards have been exercising lordship so long but may not claim it, only hold it in trust. No matter how good a Steward he is or for how long he serves in that position, a Steward may not claim the right to rule. Lots of men would have a serious issue with that kind of situation, and from comments Faramir made about Boromir, it is obvious Denethor had that resentment and implanted it in his son.

On the other hand, that business about "dotard chamberlain" sounds very much like outside influence, because I can't see someone with so much pride in his line and his position describing himself that way, so maybe that's part of the despair that's been poisoning him all these years. Maybe that's what Sauron showed Denethor to be part of his future if the Heir of Isildur ever came back- being relegated to obsolescense by some johnny-come-lately.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Quote of the Week- July 5th 2004 (5.VII. The Pyre of Denethor)
on: July 06, 2004 12:30
Denethor states that he is Steward for the House of Anárion, while Aragorn is but the heir of Isuldur. What he seems to have forgotten is that; as the heirs of Isuldur were the High Kings of both Gondor and Arnor, they could have taken back the rule of Gondor at any time.

[ as the argument for this may involve discussion of topics not yet reached at this point in our readings, I have started a thread on the topic of Aragorns right to rule here
Denethor was a very proud and somewhat arrogant man and he would have had a great deal of trouble giving up the Kingdom of Gondor to an unrefined Ranger from the wilderness in the North.

As ruling Steward Denethor is now aware of two big problems for his rule and his heirs. The forces of Sauron are about to attempt to take his lands from him, and even if he manages to keep them, aragorn will still take the Rule of Gondor away from him. To him, he loses Gondor whether he wins or loses the war.
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Post RE: Quote of the Week- July 5th 2004 (5.VII. The Pyre of Denethor)
on: July 29, 2004 03:08
I think it could be both, but lean perhaps more to it being Denethor's true feelings. He has ruled as Steward and must have felt quite secure then along comes someone who is going to throw him out of his job, his home probably and ursurp his power. The man is peeved for goodness sake. He is bound to rant a bit. But. also I think he is obviously influenced a little by Sauron.

And besides which he really doesn't like Gandalf, does he, let's face it.

[Edited on 29/7/2004 by Rosearialelven]
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