Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Languages » Quenya Discussion » Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
Author Topic:
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 26, 2004 03:41
I'm a big fan of names, and I've been working on some original Quenya names for use in stories and roleplaying games and such, and I just wanted to get some opinions (and any suggestions or criticisms) from some other Quenya scholars, because I'm not completely sure if I've been doing these correctly. Anyway, here's a list of pretty much all the names I've created so far. A lot of them are different variations of similar meanings...

Vëandur (Devoted to the Sea): vëan 'sea' (from Vëaneldar, a name for the Teleri) + -(n)dur 'servant'
Ulmondil (Friend of Ulmo): Ulmo + -(n)dil 'friend, lover'
Veryandil (Brave friend): verya 'bold' + -(n)dil
Eärohtar (Sea-warrior): Eär 'sea' + ohtar 'warrior'
Vëammehtar (Sea-warrior): vëan + mehtar 'warrior' (as in Telumehtar, from mahtar)
Eärmo (Seaman): Eär + -mo masc. ending
Vanyacar (Fair hair): vanya 'beautiful, fair' + car 'top'
Vanyafindë (Fair hair): vanya + findë 'hair'
Kementur (Master of the Earth): Kemen 'earth' + tur 'mastery, control' (this is for a villain in a story, hence the harsher 'k' rather than the typical 'c')
Anardur (Devoted to the Sun): Anar 'Sun' + -(n)dur
Cemendil (Earth-friend): Cemen + -(n)dil
Menelcar (Fair hair, lit. Heaven-top): Menel 'the Heavens' + -car
Elemmáno (Blessed star): elen 'star' + an interpretation of 'blessedness' based on Manwë 'blessed being' + masc. ending
Eldamirë (Elf-jewel): Elda 'Elf' + mírë 'jewel'
Vëammirë (Jewel of the Sea): vëan + mírë
Narcalimon (Bright flame): nar 'fire, flame' + calima 'bright' + -on masc. ending
Súrendil (Wind-friend): súrë 'wind' + -(n)dil
Nénion (Water-son): nén 'water' + -ion 'son'
Indomána (Good heart): indo 'heart, mind, mood' + mánë 'morally good' + fem. ending
Elerrámë (Star-wing): elen + ráma 'wing' + fem. ending
Elessórno (Star-eagle): elen + sornë 'eagle' + -o masc. ending (what can I say, I wanted a translation of Thorongil)
Isillótë (Moon blossom): Isil 'Moon' + lótë 'flower'
Axancarmo (Lawmaker): axan 'rule, commandment' + car 'make' + -mo, agental suffix
Vórimon (Faithful man): vórima 'faithful, steadfast' + -on masc. ending
Erannon (Gift of Eru): Eru + anna 'gift' + -on masc. ending
Eäranna (Gift of the Sea): Eär + anna
Haldamor (Hidden darkness): halda 'hidden, veiled, shadowed' + mor 'darkness'
Isilion (Son of the Moon): Isil + -ion
Anáriel (Daughter of the Sun): Anar + -iel 'daughter'
Artanér (Nobleman): arta 'exalted, noble' + nér 'man'
Entulcar (Restorer, lit. Re-establisher): prefix en- 're-' + tulca 'establish' + -r, agentive ending (as in Envinyatar, Renewer)

Whew! Okay, that's all the names I've got, or at least all the ones I remembered to write down. I'd love to hear some of your opinions on them, maybe some suggestions on how to improve them, or anything else like that. Thanks for taking the time to read!

[Edited on 11/27/2004 by Narcalimon]
Námovaryar
Council Member
Posts: 46
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 26, 2004 07:51
Wonderful! Your scholarship is to be commended, but, uh, are there any "real world" equivalents to those? Anybody whose name means "sea-warrior"? If that is not so, your work, as commendable as it is, is in vain.
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 26, 2004 09:43
Thanks! What do you mean, though? Why should there be any real world equivalents?
Námovaryar
Council Member
Posts: 46
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 27, 2004 05:15
My goof, I just thought that these were additions to the name database here. People's names which you have translated into Quenya. I just recently realized that these names are in fact meant for simply RPG playing. :blush: Insert foot in mouth and chew slowly.
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 27, 2004 10:33
Oh! Heh. Yeah, I don't really have much interest in translating real names or vice versa, I prefer to try and come up with original ones on my own. Sorry for the confusion.
Malinornë
FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & Eldameldë
Posts: 1205
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 27, 2004 11:16
Great job! And as for the meaning of 'real' names, some of those are pretty strange too...
Most of these look excellent to me, and I just want to comment on a few:

Vëandur (Devoted to the Sea): vëan 'sea' (from Vëaneldar, a name for the Teleri) + -(n)dur 'servant'

"vëan" seems to be an inflected form, so it would probably be better to start from the simple nominative "vëa" (sea). In this case the result would be the same anyway, of course, as you get the "n" from "-(n)dur". (The "ëar" is the more "normal" word for "sea", but I guess you want variation here!)

Nénion (Water-son): nén 'water' + -ion 'son'

"nén" has the special stem form "nen-", so I believe the accent would be lost in a compound, as in "Nendili" (water-lovers). (There is however "Nénar" (Uranus), so obviously the long vowel is ok too!)

Indomána (Good heart): indo 'heart, mind, mood' + mánë 'morally good' + fem. ending
Elerrámë (Star-wing): elen + ráma 'wing' + fem. ending


A question here... in the first case, you change a final "a" to "ë" to make the name feminine, while in the second you change final "ë" to "a"... which looks a bit odd Both "ë" and "a" can be used as feminine endings, so you might just leave the words as they originally were.

Erannon (Gift of Eru): Eru + anna 'gift' + -on masc. ending


It seems to me that "Eru" is better left complete, like it is e.g. in "Eruamillë" (mother of God).
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 27, 2004 11:40
"vëan" seems to be an inflected form, so it would probably be better to start from the simple nominative "vëa" (sea). In this case the result would be the same anyway, of course, as you get the "n" from "-(n)dur". (The "ëar" is the more "normal" word for "sea", but I guess you want variation here!)
Ah, I did not know that, I thought the word itself was vëan. I've only seen it mentioned in The Lost Road--is it used anywhere else? And if the word is vëa, and not vëan, would that mean that the other names I used it in would just be Vëamehtar and Vëamirë? Also, why does mahtar become mehtar in compounds like Telumehtar?

You're right that I was looking for variation from the norm in regards to eär/vëa, but also I think that vëa, aside from its obscurity, seems to work better with some words than eär does, and vice versa.

"nén" has the special stem form "nen-", so I believe the accent would be lost in a compound, as in "Nendili" (water-lovers). (There is however "Nénar" (Uranus), so obviously the long vowel is ok too!)
Okay, just chalk that one up to me not knowing. But I guess either way works, like you just said...

A question here... in the first case, you change a final "a" to "ë" to make the name feminine, while in the second you change final "ë" to "a"... which looks a bit odd Both "ë" and "a" can be used as feminine endings, so you might just leave the words as they originally were.
Oops! Thanks for catching that. I guess I changed the final vowels just because I liked the way they sounded, not for any other reason really....

It seems to me that "Eru" is better left complete, like it is e.g. in "Eruamillë" (mother of God).
Hm, okay. I've never seen Eruamillë before, and I was just going by rules I'd been told about before in regards to compounds with words ending and beginning with a vowel. Where is Eruamillë from?

Thanks for your comments! I'm always glad to learn something new about Quenya, and usually creating names helps me learn better than other methods...
Malinornë
FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & Eldameldë
Posts: 1205
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 28, 2004 12:35
I thought the word itself was vëan. I've only seen it mentioned in The Lost Road--is it used anywhere else?

It is used several times, with different endings, in the essay "A Secret Vice", printed in "The Monsters and the Critics". It's a bit obscure exactly which function all these endings have in this early version of Quenya, but the simple plural "vëar" and the locative "vëassë" are clear enough. The singular form "vëa" is also used. (The Quenya wordlists at Ardalambion are good for finding out the sources for words).

And if the word is vëa, and not vëan, would that mean that the other names I used it in would just be Vëamehtar and Vëamirë?

To my understanding, yes. But as the word occurs in the form "vëan" in a name in The Lost Road (which I wasn't aware of until you mentioned it - thanks!), that ought probably also to be considered a valid form... so I guess the bottom line is that you can use the form you prefer in your names, as there are valid arguments for both.

Also, why does mahtar become mehtar in compounds like Telumehtar?

My guess is that it's because the first part of this name is "telumë", so that Telumehtar would be a contraction of Telumemahtar. But it might as well be that the word for "swordsman" at one point was spelt with an "e". In Lost Tales 1, "Telumehtar" is "Telimbectar", while "canopy, sky" is "telimbo".

I've never seen Eruamillë before, and I was just going by rules I'd been told about before in regards to compounds with words ending and beginning with a vowel. Where is Eruamillë from?


Eruamillë is from issues 43 and 44 of the journal Vinyar Tengwar, in Tolkien's translation of "Hail Mary". This prayer also has other compounds pointing in the same direction: Eruion, Eruontari, Eruanna. As for the reason why Eru is treated differently... maybe because it's a name, or out of respect for divinity, or just not to mix these compounds up with words derived from "er"?

Are these rules for compounds that you mention published somewhere? It would be interesting to look at them, as I'm only working from, obviously incomplete, personal observations.

Thanks for your comments! I'm always glad to learn something new about Quenya, and usually creating names helps me learn better than other methods...


You're welcome! Names is an interesting area

[Edited on 28/11/2004 by Malinornë]
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 28, 2004 01:36
The rules I know of aren't published anywhere as far as I know--maybe my choice of words were incorrect. I was also just working off personal observations and a few things some other Quenya fanatics have told me over the months.

I'm going to try and take a look at these sources you've mentioned. I'm woefully short on my own sources to work from, aside from the books themselves, the Etymologies (although right now my copy of TLR is buried in a box somewhere, because I just moved to a new house), Ardalambion (I don't have the time to study the lessons there right now, unfortunately), and some friends.

I suppose just learning through the making of names won't be totally useful in the long run. It's kind of hard to learn the grammar when you're just creating names instead of just sentences, right?

[Edited on 12/4/2004 by Narcalimon]
Malinornë
FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & Eldameldë
Posts: 1205
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 30, 2004 04:05
Ok then, just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something.

Even if you don't have the time to study any lessons now, I still think that the Ardalambion wordlists will be very useful for your name-creating activites
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 30, 2004 04:16
Indeed, I've made use of it several times already.

By the way, I just want to go back to that vëa/vëan thing real quickly. You mentioned that vëan may be an inflected form. Is it the same deal with fëa in fëantúri? What exactly does "inflected form" mean, anyway? How does inflection (is that the correct term?) happen?
dirk_math
Quenya Workbook Mentor
Posts: 622
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: November 30, 2004 07:51
The easiest way to show inflection is the English possessive case: e.g. "father" has "father's" as possessive case.

But if you speak German or know Latin then you will notice that nouns in these languages have many more forms. Each of those forms is called a case. And a case signifies a function of the word in the sentence.

Quenya has 9 cases, this means that every noun has 9 different forms. Let's for example look at 'father' = atar, 'food' = apsa, 'horse' = rocco in Quenya.
In a sentence 'father gives food to the horse' becomes atar anta apsa i roccon.
The -n at the end of roccon means that this word is in the dative case, and this is used for nouns that receive something.

Because from this form we always can see, that the food is given to the horse, no matter where it is put in the sentence:
1) i roccon atar anta apsa
2) atar i roccon anta apsa
3) atar anta i roccon apsa
Al these sentences mean exactly the same thing.
(note that 2 and 3 would not be possible in English: 'father to the horse gives food' and 'father gives to the horse food').

(thanks Mal )

[Edited on 1/12/2004 by dirk_math]
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Malinornë
FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & Eldameldë
Posts: 1205
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: December 01, 2004 07:53
Good explanation! There's a little typo in there... the word for food is apsa
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: December 04, 2004 10:58
Thank you for the explanation, Dirk!

Malinornë:
My guess is that it's because the first part of this name is "telumë", so that Telumehtar would be a contraction of Telumemahtar.
Just thought of this: if that's the case, how would you explain Calimehtar, where the root word for the first part of the name is calima? Sorry, I don't mean to be badgering or anything, I just now remembered the name...

[Edited on 12/4/2004 by Narcalimon]
Malinornë
FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & Eldameldë
Posts: 1205
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: December 05, 2004 04:57
Well... that probably means that that particular idea of mine is less likely than the other one listed... about 'mahtar' having (had) a spelling with 'e' instead of 'a'

[Edited on 5/12/2004 by Malinornë]
Narcalimon
Council Member
Posts: 10
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Quenya names, comments/criticisms welcome.
on: December 05, 2004 08:18
Hehehe. Right, gotcha.

Hm, I can't think of anything else to ask about or comment on right now. But thank you again for all your help!
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email