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Elrohir_TarAmandil
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Post I need a word
on: December 31, 2004 05:51
for footsteps , or steps .
Fíriel
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Post RE: I need a word
on: December 31, 2004 09:10
Is rein ('footprint'; normal plural likely remains the same, collective being reinath) close enough? I don't think there's a word itself for 'footstep', but hopefully the need to be specific isn't so great that you can't use a synonym like 'footprint'...
Elrohir_TarAmandil
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Post RE: I need a word
on: December 31, 2004 10:32
What about this:

the little steps i take..
I tithen badid brenion
The little walks I endure

Would that be okay?
gwendeth
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 01, 2005 06:33
There's a general 'thought' (I think!) that gerunds are not pluralized. In any case, the adjective would be placed after it, and be lenited. Also, your singulars/plurals need to 'match'.

Whether this sentence is the 'best' or not, I'm not sure, but if you use it, I'd say:

I baded dithen bronion

note: assuming you were using 'paded' for 'walks'

"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Elrohir_TarAmandil
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 01, 2005 08:05
There's a general 'thought' (I think!) that gerunds are not pluralized. In any case, the adjective would be placed after it, and be lenited. Also, your singulars/plurals need to 'match'.

Whether this sentence is the 'best' or not, I'm not sure, but if you use it, I'd say:

I baded dithen bronion

note: assuming you were using 'paded' for 'walks'


Yeah, the sentence is not that great in this form. Its original form is much better. I am considering using "footprints" but undecided.
In Salo's "Gateway" it says: 'Gerunds ending in -ed form plurals ending in -id , and gerunds ending in -ad form plurals ending in -aid , both with internal i -affection.'
So that is what I did.

Thanks for the input about plurals/singulars. Its difficult to remember all the rules sometimes - naw taur.

Actually, I used the verb bad- .

Thanks again!!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 01, 2005 12:19
In Salo's "Gateway" it says: 'Gerunds ending in -ed form plurals ending in -id , and gerunds ending in -ad form plurals ending in -aid , both with internal i -affection.'


Keep in mind that David's A Gateway To Sindarin is not gospel. He presents his views. There is no attested sample to support his belief that gerunds have a distinct plural form.
gwendeth
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 01, 2005 01:12
Actually, I used the verb bad-

Hmmm... IMHO, I think pada- ("walk a path or track") might be a better choice than 'bad-' ("go") for your translation.

In any case, if you did chose to use the plural of the gerund, you'd use Nasal Mutation (if I'm not mistaken), so either:
~I medid or I phedaid~ and dithin (lenited/pluralized)





[Edited on 1/1/2005 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
BlueSting
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 04, 2005 03:55
New question:
What's the elvish word for "blue"?
sindarinelvish
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 04, 2005 05:11
The SINDARIN word is lhûn. The LANGUAGES section has dictionaries.
SindyE Nad dithen carnen an gwend.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 04, 2005 07:49
The SINDARIN word is lhûn. The LANGUAGES section has dictionaries.


Actually, the Sindarin word for 'blue' is luin (as in Ered Luin).
sindarinelvish
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 05, 2005 05:10
blue n. elu, adj. lhûn.
sources: Dragonflame Sindarin dictionary, p. 80.
COE Sindarin Dictionary

luin is Quenya for blue.

[Edited on 6/1/2005 by sindarinelvish]

[Edited on 6/1/2005 by sindarinelvish]
SindyE Nad dithen carnen an gwend.
Fíriel
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 06, 2005 02:38
I think both words are valid enough, depending on your purposes and intent. Even though luin is listed as a Doriathrin form in the Etymologies, its appearance in names such as Ered Luin in LOTR suggests that it was recognised by Sindarin speakers as well.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 06, 2005 08:09
I doubt the validity of lhûn for 'blue' in Sindarin not just because of the attested examples Ered Luin, Ithryn Luin and Luindirien, which are unquestionably Sindarin, but also on sounder etymological grounds. Lhûn is a Noldorin (not Sindarin) word from the Etymologies derived from the stem LUG-. Stem words beginning with L yield Noldorin words beginning with lh, but not so Sindarin. With very few exceptions, Sindarin words beginning the lh come from stems beginning with SL (e.g. lhaew < SLIW-, lhê < SLIG-, lhoss < SLUS-, etc). LUG- should not give rise to a Sindarin word beginning in lh, pure and simple. There is a place name Lhûn, but there is no evidence or reason to suppose that this place name comes from a word meaning 'blue'. And in The Silmarillion the name Lhúndirien does occur for 'Blue Towers, but remember that this book was a scissors and paste compiliation containing forms dating back to before the publication of The Lord of the Rings. Lhúndirien should probably be seen as an obsolete form, especially since the 'updated' version Luindirien appears elsewhere in Tolkien's writings. I respect Dragon Flame, but I feel that there is more evidence to support luin rather than lhûn as the correct 'mature' Sindarin word.

[Edited on 7/1/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
gwendeth
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 07, 2005 04:14
A quick question... would luin be both the singular and plural form?
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 07, 2005 04:41
A quick question... would luin be both the singular and plural form?


Here's what Helge wrote in Sindarin: the Noble Tongue:
In a phrase like Ithryn Luin "Blue Wizards" (UT:390) the adjective luin "blue" must be plural to agree with "wizards". It might be thought that luin is the plural form of lûn, which is what we would get if we were to make a Sindarin update of the "Noldorin" word for "blue", namely lhûn (LR:370 s.v. LUG2). As indicated above, long û in a final syllable becomes ui in the plural, so everything seems to fit: luin could be the plural form of lûn. What kills this seductively promising theory is the name of the mountain Mindolluin, "Towering Blue-head" (translated in the Silmarillion Index). Here, there is no reason for the adjective "blue" to be plural, so luin has to be the singular/basic form as well. There is also Luindirien "Blue Towers" in WJ:193; at the beginning of a compound, the word for "blue" would be expected to appear in its more or less basic form, not inflected for plural. It should also be noted that the same entry in the Etymologies that gives "Noldorin" lhûn (> Sindarin ?lûn) as the word for "blue", also gives lúne as the corresponding Quenya word. In Namárië in LotR, the adjective "blue" is luini instead (this is a plural form, from the phrase "blue vaults"; the singular is probably luinë). So while in the Etymologies the words for "blue" had been derived from a primitive form lugni (stem LUG2, LR:370) producing Quenya lúne and "Noldorin" lhûn, Tolkien must later have decided that the primitive form was something like *luini yielding Quenya luinë and Sindarin luin. Bottom line is that luin "blue" seems to cover both singular and plural, indicating that the diphthong ui undergoes no change in the plural. The fact that the adjective annui "western" is both sg. and pl. points in the same direction
gwendeth
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Post RE: I need a word
on: January 07, 2005 08:54
Thanks, Uialdil_i_degilbor!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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