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Tcherepin
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Post Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 07, 2005 04:37
Wierd title for a post, I know. Anyway, this is something I figured out a number of years ago and I've thought it's curious.

Tolkien was the ultimate Faculty Member. He was totally and entirely "establishment", you know... as in he did well in school, went to graduate school, become a reader at Leeds, then became a faculty member at Oxford and spent his whole professional life in Academia. He ran his life pretty much by the book, except for when WWI sort of *rather* got in the way. Tolkien's power (such as it was) and strength came from being a Master within the structure of British Academic Society. Tolkien in his personal life invests very heavily in STRUCTURE.

Along the way he did something very NON-establishment, however. He wrote fantasy stories.

Now, who's the most powerful character in LOTR? It seems to me that it's Gandalf. Well, where is Gandalf's "power"? Honestly, it's in PEOPLE. Gandalf is the Maia that gets out and about, hangs out with hobbits and regular folks and invests his power in people. Gandalf's power and strength isn't in his ring from Cirdan, though he wears one. It's not in a big tower somewhere, or armies that he builds or an array of wizards that he trains. His power is totally decentralized into people... everyday people, and not-so-everyday people like Aragorn. But to Gandalf, we're all just people, and people are what counts.

Radagast invests his power in the natural world...in animals and plants....like Eagles, for example. Ever thought about the potential connection between Radagast and the Eagles? Radagast is Maia, he ain't stupid. It's not mentioned, but it seems pretty likely, to me. Saruman thinks Radagast is useless and a lot of Tolkien readers think so, too, but I am very much not so sure. Honestly, there are many ways to invest your power, and I think the natural world is hardly a bad one to choose. Like Gandalf, his power is dispersed into something not close to himself. Who halued Gandalf off the spire of Orthanc? An eagle, sent by whom? Radagast. I think Radagast is anything BUT useless.

Saruman invests his power in "Things"....Orthanc tower, the uruk-hai, breeding experiments, the Palantir, his relationship with Sauron and so on. These are structured, defined, tangible things. Sauron invests his power in one simple thing...he concentrates it in a ring. You can't get more structured than that.

Well...wait a minute. Tolkien's strength lies in structure....his achievements are in the very, very structured world of British Academia. Tolkien, in the Silmarillion is very, very set in the notion of "you are born to your role". The Great Elves are always the sons and daughter of the earlier Great Elves. You don't read about a nobody elf who advanced through society and became somebody in Tolkiiens work....with the huge exception of Hobbits.

Hobbits, how utterly UN-Oxford Professor-like can you get?
....and Gandalf.

Tolkien is a lot more like Saruman than he is like Gandalf, if you ask me. Tolkien is much more like a First Age high-born elf than he is like a hobbit, or so it seems to me.

So why did Tolkien write heroes that are so very unlike himself?

[Edited on 8/1/2005 by Tcherepin]

[Edited on 8/1/2005 by Tcherepin]
LinweSingollo
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 07, 2005 05:19
Perhaps you would find Tolkien's letters interesting and enlightening. The man did need a job. He really wasn't fit for much else (his own opinion). I don't see what the structure of the British Academic Society has to do with anything...what is your point here? I think he felt he was more a cog in the academic machinery than anything else; he would have rather devoted more time to his "elf stories"- he did have a wife and family to support. Tolkien more like Saruman? Are you kidding? Tolkien detested machines and everything Saruman stood for.

As for his not being hobbit-like, I quote the Professor himself:

"I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmland; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour...; I got to bed late and get up late (when possible). I do not travel much."



[Edited on 8/1/2005 by LinweSingollo]
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
RubySandybanks
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 07, 2005 05:43
Tcherepin , you do make some good points. Tolkien certainly was the ‘ultimate Faculty Member.’ It is interesting; however, that Tolkien thought of himself as a Hobbit.

Hi Linwe :wave:

Linwe beat me to the quote but I can tell you that it was written to a fan in 1958, Deborah Webster, and can be found in The Letters of JRR Tolkien # 213.

I think he is referring to his inner nature (when he calls himself a Hobbit) more than to his outer appearance to the world.

He also rather liked his chickens.

Some of Tolkien's most enjoyable times were spent in local pubs drinking beer with the boys.

And like Bilbo, Tolkien did not like to be disturbed.

I think if Tolkien’s life circumstances had been different, he would have taken more time out to be more of a Hobbit. I don’t get the sense that he loved his occupation per say (although I am still reading and thinking about his letters). I see it more as a means to an end. Money (of course) and the opportunity to pursue his love of languages (and literature). And, of course, it gave him the means by which he could write. He often speaks about the high cost of paper and having papers typewritten. It was a different time.
Tolkien more like Saruman? Are you kidding? Tolkien detested machines. ~ Linwe
I totally agree; Tolkien did detest machines although he didn't mind the typewriter.

As I look at Tolkien’s picture on the cover of The Letters of JRR Tolkien I try to imagine him with curly brown (but greying) hair. Shrink him down a bit and imagine him with Hobbit feet. I swear he looks very much like how I first pictured Bilbo. LOL

[Edited on 8/1/2005 by RubySandybanks]
pv
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 08, 2005 05:09
Perhaps Tolkien used his writing to fill in what was lacking in his real life. It might have been his way of livening up a boring existence as a professor.
As for his characters being unlike himself, kids with glasses and braces quite often see themselves as elven princes/princesses in their personal fictions!
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atalante_star
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 08, 2005 05:45
Tolkien was the ultimate Faculty Member. He was totally and entirely "establishment", you know... as in he did well in school, went to graduate school, become a reader at Leeds, then became a faculty member at Oxford and spent his whole professional life in Academia. He ran his life pretty much by the book, except for when WWI sort of *rather* got in the way. Tolkien's power (such as it was) and strength came from being a Master within the structure of British Academic Society. Tolkien in his personal life invests very heavily in STRUCTURE.

I'm not sure this is true. His life was really *forced* into the structure of academia, but was that was his ideal? I don't think so. Everything written about his life - his study with teetering piles of books lying everywhere, doodling in the margins of exam papers, writing fragments of text on scraps of paper, does not suggest a person who automatically is intensely ordered.

The structure that *did* exist in his personal life I would say appears more from his religious beliefs and just the general structure of life one would expect from a middle-class English family of those times. In those days, you would *expect* his life to be structured. Dinner was set on the table at the same time each night. Children were sent to bed at the same time each night. You got up at the same time, set out to work at the same time. The fact that Edith often seemed not to know what time he would be home each evening would suggest an easing of the normal structure, if anything.

As for academia, well, it is a structured world. With his wish to study English / Classics, there were only a few universities Tolkien - a schoolboy with great promise - would be expected to attend. Oxford, Cambridge, maybe Bristol, maybe a few others. But Oxford and Cambridge have always been considered the best, and the Oxford and Cambridge lifestyle is one of great formality and tradition. Formality and tradition tends to lead to order and structure.

I seem to remember both Edith and Tolkien (well especially Edith) enjoyed moving to Leeds, as there they could live an easier social and academic life. Tolkien as a lecturer (and later a reader) had a much less formal departmental life, and Edith didn't have to go through the social rituals expected of Oxford wives.
Well...wait a minute. Tolkien's strength lies in structure....his achievements are in the very, very structured world of British Academia. Tolkien, in the Silmarillion is very, very set in the notion of "you are born to your role".

And Tolkien was the first of his family to go to university - his family was certainly "up and coming" and they "advanced through society and became somebody".
Tcherepin
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 09, 2005 05:48
Well, well. Interesting. I haven't gotten to the letter where Tolkien describes himself as a hobbit, yet! That will be interesting. Maybe I'll change to change this notion I've got!
Don_Palantir
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 10, 2005 07:31
One important thing to mention:

JRR Tolkien was a World War soldier. I think this influenced him a lot to wirte his characters and LOTR.
One name is the only name mentioned as the character Tolkien may be more alike : Faramir

For sure, many other charcater should have a little bit of JRR Tolkien as well XDD
Aredhelwen
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Post RE: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: January 10, 2005 08:51
Well, well. Interesting. I haven't gotten to the letter where Tolkien describes himself as a hobbit, yet! That will be interesting.

I read the book by the lady he wrote that to, and the letter was the appendix, so I know about that quote. He also says, I think, that Hobbits are really human beings, and he was living at the time in a secluded area that, when you see pictures, actually looks a bit like the Shire.
Bartimaeus
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Post Re: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: June 05, 2012 07:46
I agree with pv - I think he was, in a way, reacting to his situation and to the world around him. Because he was stuck in a very 'structured' existence, perhaps he inwardly rebelled against it and wrote his books to escape from it.

But it is interesting and true that in the Sil, most of the heroic characters are high-born, whereas LotR features characters from a variety of backgrounds. I think the Sil was largely inspired by Norse myths, etc., and it was relatively detached from the world around him. But in LotR, we notice relatively more references to contemporary events, and he seems to be expressing his disillusionment with the figures of authority of his time. He had fought in the World War, and I think the rise of Nazism and Fascism were in his time too. So he was writing about the ideal authority - someone who cares about the people and the environment, and who doesn't impose his or her authority on everyone else.

But I guess one could also argue that in the Sil, all the characters are high-born, including the greatest trouble-makers (like Feanor!) I think he was just exploring what people in power can do. The Sil isn't so much about the sanctity of nobility or authority as about the existence of it. But in LotR, characters like Elrond and Galadriel, of noble descent, are benevolent authorities, who rule in the people's name. They are the perfect rulers. But you also have characters like Frodo and Sam, who come from a very different background and play a very different role. I don’t think Tolkien was a snob - as atalante_star said, his own family was up and coming. But he seems to have had a vision of an ideal society, in which the benevolent authority and the loyal, warm-hearted ‘ordinary person’ worked together and fulfilled distinct roles. He seems to have seen them as equal in worth but not interchangeable. At the same time, the basic aim of the characters in LotR is to unseat an authoritarian power without setting up another in its place. So Tolkien was basically in favour of freedom and human (or hobbit) rights.

I think it was a case of multiple identities. Tolkien was an academic whose field of study was somewhat detached from the immediate realities of his world. But he was also a man who lived, and fought for his country. He seems to have had conservative leanings, but he was also an ordinary person - a ‘Hobbit’! He was in a very ‘structured’, industrialised world, and he couldn’t but have been influenced by its culture, but he also frequently longed for a simpler and purer existence. All these influences are visible in his work.

Of course, as Linwe said, he did need a job!
cirdaneth
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Post Re: Tolkien is not Gandalf, nor is he a hobbit
on: June 07, 2012 08:18
Well said Bartimaeus. I think he was also exploring the moral tenets of his in an environment that wouldn't get him excommunicated.
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