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GillyWhitfootofHaysend
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Post Translation check and translation help.
on: February 04, 2005 12:56
This is a movie conversation that i think would look good in Elvish on my Herr Der Ringe Creative Page.I don't know why.
It's from "The Villiage".This is my favorite part for some reason.
Here is a varient on the dialogue i found on the IMDB.

You must go into the quiet room.
Bedithach 'nin dôr dhínen.
You will go in the silent place.

No,I'll cry quarts.
Law,Nallathon_____.
No,I will cry_______.

If you will not go into the quiet room,we must strike a deal.
Ae U-Bedithach 'nin dôr dhínen,Echeditham gwaedh.
If you don't go in the silent place,We will make a oath.

Capital idea.
Naw vae.
Good idea.

You must promise never to hit anyone ever again.
???

No hitting.
???

Do you promise to keep this deal secret?
Gwestach hebi gwaedh hen thurin?
You swear to keep this oath secret?

Like a church mouse.
Non lavan var.
I'm a House Animal.

The deal is struck.
Echedim i 'waedh.
We make the oath.




Here is the original(untranslated.Just to show you.In my opinion it looks harder).

You're in trouble you know.

No hitting.

I'm to place you in the quiet room.

I'll cry quarts.

What if we strike a deal?

Capital idea.

It would be prudent to keep our deal a secret.Can you do that?

Can i keep a secret?Like a church mouse.

You needn't go to the quiet room if you take an oath to never hit another person again.

No.No hitting.

The deal is struck.




Anything wrong?Please,tell me.

[Edited on 4/2/2005 by GillyWhitfootofHaysend]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 04, 2005 04:07
With the 'standard' S/NS/N 'disclaimer...
You must go into the quiet room.
Bedithach 'nin dôr dhínen.
You will go in the silent place.

I'd use nan rather than 'nin, I think. If you were to use dôr, however, it's a 'special cases' word and would use Mixed Mutation (ndôr). There is word for 'chamber' sam. You could say:
Bedithach nan ham dhínen.
(You will go to the room silent)

If you wanted to use a 'really' unattested NS phrase you could say:

Boe anel baded nan ham dhínen.
(It is necessary for you [formal] to go to the room silent)

No,I'll cry quarts.
Law,Nallathon_____.
No,I will cry_______.

I'm not certain I'd actually 'add' the 'law' (no). What you could, perhaps say, is:

Nallathon nîr rim/arnediad.
I will cry tears numerous/unnumbered.

If you will not go into the quiet room,we must strike a deal.
Ae U-Bedithach 'nin dôr dhínen,Echeditham gwaedh.
If you don't go in the silent place,We will make a oath.

Again, the same comments about 'nin/dor.

Capital idea.
Naw vae.
Good idea.

I'd use 'maer' (vaer) "good" rather than mae (vae) "well".

You must promise never to hit anyone ever again.
???

How about:
Gwesto enni ú-dhringathach/ú-charnathach ben ad.
(Swear to me you will not beat/wound anyone again.)

- You could perhaps stick an 'an-uir' (NS forever/"to-eternity" in there.

No hitting.
???

I'd say either:
Avo dhringo (don't beat) or Avo charno (don't wound) or Avo eitho (don't insult/scorn/prick)

Do you promise to keep this deal secret?
Gwestach hebi gwaedh hen thurin?
You swear to keep this oath secret?

I'd use the future tense "gwestathach", and the gerund form of the verb (hebed), I think. (I could be wrong, though)

Like a church mouse.
Non lavan var.
I'm a House Animal.

How about:
Sui nâr aer.
(Like [a] rat holy)
The deal is struck.

I don't say these are the best, but may be some ideas. Good stab at it though!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Fíriel
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 05, 2005 09:53
Gilly, I have nothing else to add to Gwendeth's comments except a reminder to lenit nouns that are the objects of verbs, such as in sentence three (echeditham 'waedh).

[Edited on 5/2/2005 by Fíriel]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 05, 2005 11:46
Ooops! I missed that! :blush: Thanks, Fíriel!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
GillyWhitfootofHaysend
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 05, 2005 03:14
Thanks.
But,one last thing:

Does Firiel's coment have to do with Gwendeth's talk about the Mutation.
GillyWhitfootofHaysend
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 05, 2005 03:31
You're in trouble,you know.Vi_____lin,Istach.-You in____________,you know.

I'm to place you in the quiet room.-Non penia nan ham dhínen.-I am to place you in the quiet room.


What if we strike a deal?-Man ae echedim gwaedh.-What if we make a oath?

It would be prudent to keep our deal a secret.-_________hebi gwaedh hen thurin.-_______________to keep this oath secret.
Can you do that?-Cerich hen?-You do this?

Can i keep a secret?-Hebin thurin?-I keep a secret?


You needn't go to the quiet room if you take an oath to never hit another person again.-U-Badithach nan ham dhínen ae gwesto enni ú-dhringathach ben ad/Ae hebich________________.
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 06, 2005 09:11
Does Firiel's coment have to do with Gwendeth's talk about the Mutation.

In the sense that - if a 'special cases' word (see Vocab 5 for the list) is in the/a "Direct Object" placement, I'd think so. That's why the Mutation Chart is so handy - keep the word list 'close by' so you can see how they'd change in any of the different mutation types.

You're in trouble,you know.Vi_____lin,Istach.-You in____________,you know.

I think this phrase is rather 'Anglicanized'? 'Americanized'? - or at least, perhaps I can't see it being 'rendered' quite the same way in other languages I've studied, and seems to 'apply' to Sindarin, too - IMHO. And so, I don't think I'd try to translate it 'word-for-word' like that, for myself. Plus, the two verbs for 'trouble' (presta-, trasta-) don't seem to mean 'quite' the same thing.

Perhaps, Heniach naeth nef le. might be an option - literally: You understand [that] woe [is] on this side of (i.e. 'near/close') [to] you.

A couple of quick notes:

- Nowhere is it 'attested' that -ch is a/the 2nd person verb ending - many folks have just been 'using' it as that based on David Salo's "Movie Sindarin", in lieu of not having any other option.

You could, perhaps add "i" (that) and/or "na" (to) into that sentence - I didn't as a personal 'preference'.
I'm to place you in the quiet room.-Non penia nan ham dhínen.-I am to place you in the quiet room.

Reminder: the 'to be' verb only has one 'attested' form: no. Most of the time it is 'included' in the verb tense/ending.

Perhaps:
Le peniathon mi sam dhínen
(You I-will-set in [the] chamber silent)

What if we strike a deal?-Man ae echedim gwaedh.-What if we make a oath?

Thanks to Fíriel's 'reminder' , 'waedh.
It would be prudent to keep our deal a secret.-_________hebi gwaedh hen thurin.-_______________to keep this oath secret.

- Again, I think the 'concept'/'phrasing' of "keep(ing) a secret" in that sense is rather "Anglicanized".

One option might be:
Boe immen ú-beded 'waedh vín thurin
(It is necessary between us to not speak [of] oath ours secret)

Note: immen is NS
Can you do that?-Cerich hen?-You do this?

One of the NS 'definitions' of gar- is "can/be able", so I'd use Gerich hen? perhaps. - Though, it still doesn't look 'right' to me either way. *sigh*

Can i keep a secret?-Hebin thurin?-I keep a secret?

- Again, see my previous comment about 'keeping a secret'. Plus 'secret' here is a noun, not an adjective. thurin is an adjective, and there's (again) nothing 'attested' *that I know of* that says (as in English) that an adjective can be used as a noun - as 'secret' is here, in these two separate passages.

Possible suggestions:
Ú-bedin beth thurin?

([Can] I not speak [of a] word (peth lenited as DO) secret?

Ú-bedithon beth thurin
(I will not speak [of a] word secret)

You needn't go to the quiet room if you take an oath to never hit another person again.-U-Badithach nan ham dhínen ae gwesto enni ú-dhringathach ben ad/Ae hebich________________.

This one (for me) presents some problems. I'm not sure there's anything 'attested' that shows you can (or should?) use two verbs with the same 'ending-types' in one sentence like this. Otherwise, I'd say:

Ae gwestach enni ú-dhringathach ben ad, ú-moe allen baded mi sam dhínen.
(If you swear to me [that] you will not beat anyone again, it is not necessary to you (BIG NS there!) to go in[to the] room silent)

Would personally like opinions on that last sentence translation.

- Again, these may not be the 'best', but are just my ideas.

gwen

[Edited on 6/2/2005 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Naneth
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 06, 2005 05:07
Nowhere is it 'attested' that -ch is a/the 2nd person verb ending - many folks have just been 'using' it as that based on David Salo's "Movie Sindarin", in lieu of not having any other option.


Carl Hostetter has indeed let us know that "-ch" has been attested in Sindarin pronoun charts as a "second person" verb ending.
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translation check and translation help.
on: February 06, 2005 07:01
Ooohh! Wonderful! grrr Where did I miss that? :blush:

Thanks Naneth! I feel SO much better!!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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