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Ranwen
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Post Sindarin phrases??????
on: March 01, 2005 12:20
Suilad, :wave:

I had a long weekend, so I tryed to make some phrase into Sindarin. I hoop they're right, but I'm not sure. So if someone like to take a look at them, i would be very pleased. :love:

My thoughts will not bring our friends anything, it will not undo his evil sorcery. :
Nauth nîn avar tegi mellyn mín, háva úcaron em morgul în.

Nobody knows the answer. : Alben ista (i) dambeth.

And now you are not without hoop. : A si le al u estel.

I never trusted _________(name). : Im ului estel ___________.
I wish I told it before. : Im iesta Im trenar ha _ _ _ _ _

Do you not see? : Car le altíri?

All those dead. : Pân sin fern.

I see it. : Im tíron.

We fight till the end. : Maetham na meth.

When will it be? : Mar innas ten na?

When will we see each other again? : Mar innas cen _ _ _ ad?
(I found somewhere this phrase translated as: ‘Mar lû vin achenithem?’ but I don’t know if it is the right transaltion for it.)

I hope somebody want to take a look at this translations and give some feed-back to me.

Hannon le,
Ranwen
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thorsten
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Post RE: Sindarin phrases??????
on: March 01, 2005 04:23
_Nauth nîn avar tegi mellyn mín, háva úcaron em morgul în._

You should pluralize _nauth > noeth_; the verb _ava-_ states intention, not fact (so you would use it for refusing but not for stating the fact that something will not happen), you left out the 'anything' which could be _nad_ 'a thing', _naid_ 'things' . I'd suggest you try 'will not' with a negative future construction. I don't understand _háva úcaron em_ at all.

> Alben ista (i) dambeth.

_ista-_ is translated 'to have knowledge' - so it probably ought to be used as _iston o..._ 'I have knowledge about...'

_A si le al u estel._

Neither _al_ nor _u_ are attested as independent particles in Sindarin - the sentence is rather tricky...

_Im iesta Im trenar ha_

Why use a verb _*iesta-_ when we have attested _aníra-_?

_Do you not see? : Car le altíri?_

'do', like 'will' and 'have' are used both as verbs and as auxiliary verbs in English, e.g. to form tenses like future 'I will go' or questions 'do you go?' - the verb in both these examples is 'go' and that is the only part that needs to be translated into Sindarin, the auxiliary stuff 'do' and 'will' are not directly translated into Sindarin but appear as a future ending _-tha_ ('will') or as nothing. 'Don't you see?' could maybe translated as _ú-genich?_

_Pân sin fern._

Pluralize the adjectives, they seem to agree in number in Sindarin.

_Im tíron._

The eldarin languages (unlike e.g. Latin) cannot have two pronouns in nominative as subject in a sentence - so either you have it independent like in _im tíra_ or you incorporate it into the ending like _tíron_ (cf. _im Narvi hain echant_ where we don't see _***im (...) echannen_ (LOTR)).

_Maetham na meth._

A lenition is missing, _na veth_ - or better use _nan_ 'to the'

_Mar innas ten na?_

'will be' is again the auxiliary 'will' whereas _innas_ is the noun 'the will, the intention' - so it makes absolutely no sense here.

_Mar lû vin achenithem?_

It is in fact a misquoted version of
_Man lû vin achenitham?_ 'What time will we see us again?' which is, I believe, a translation I suggested - it is grammatically correct for all I know, but I doubt Tolkien would really have written it like that - translating idiomatic greetings is never something that can be done reliably.


[Edited on 1/3/2005 by thorsten]
Ranwen
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Post RE: Sindarin phrases??????
on: March 02, 2005 12:55
thanks for the feed-back thorsten,

So I make a second try:

My tougths will not bring our friends anyting, it will not undo his evil sorcery. -> Noeth nîn ___ tegi nais mellyn mîn, ha ___ ucaron orgul în.

Nobody knows the answer. -> Alben iston dambeth.

and now you are not without hope. -> A si le ___ uestel.

I wish I told it before. -> Im aníra Im trenar ha ___

We fight till the end. -> Maethem nan veth.

When will it be? -> Mar ten na?

When will we see each other again? -> Mar __ cen__ ad?

I see it. -> Im_____ (I really don't know ...)

I hope this will be better.

Hoping for feed-back
Ranwen
Ranwen
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Post RE: Sindarin phrases??????
on: March 09, 2005 01:00
Is there really nobody who can give me Feed-back???
Help, please....

Ranwen
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Fíriel
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Post RE: Sindarin phrases??????
on: March 09, 2005 11:03
I'm not thorsten , but I have some suggestions to make...


My tougths will not bring our friends anyting, it will not undo his evil sorcery. -> Noeth nîn ___ tegi nais mellyn mîn, ha ___ ucaron orgul în.


You need to make the verb negative here, so use ú, which causes lenition of teg- to deg-. Also, don't forget to conjugate 'bring' in the future tense (you're using a bare infinitive there), so noeth nîn ú-degithar (-R's a plural marker)... Mín, not mîn. The '{to} our friends' part is a bit unclear (I'd be inclined to use an or something similar here), but can stand because of that infamous line, onen i-estel edain... The second part of that sentence is a bit tricky, so maybe just ú-nuithatha ngûl um dîn, 'it will not stop his evil sorcery' ('stop' seems clearer here than 'not make').

Nobody knows the answer. -> Alben iston dambeth.


This literally translates as 'nobody I know {the} answer'. Perhaps just conjugate the verb as ista, and insert a definite article before 'answer': alben ista i nambeth (special case lenition).

and now you are not without hope. -> A si le ___ uestel.


You know, rephrasing this would make the translation a lot easier to work with. A si gerich estel, 'and now you have hope'?

I wish I told it before. -> Im aníra Im trenar ha ___


Oh... you're using independent pronouns? Well, my earlier suggestion might be better as a si le gâr estel then. Usually I might include 'that' in this type of translation, but i im sounds a bit awkward...

We fight till the end. -> Maethem nan veth.


Maetham. Because the preposition nan ends with an -N which indicates the use of the definite, mixed mutation might occur instead: nan meth.

When will it be? -> Mar ten na?


Arrgh, risky 'to be' verb... Anyway, natha might be the conjugated future tense of nâ (and please note I stress might very heavily...). Even so, this construction doesn't seem valid, but at the lack of anything better...

When will we see each other again? -> Mar __ cen__ ad?


How about another rephrasing? Mar geveditham ad?, 'when will we meet again?'

I see it. -> Im_____ (I really don't know ...)


What thorsten meant about your original attempt (sorry however if I understood it wrongly) was that you can't use im tíron -- you could say im tíra or tíron, but not both, for it would be like saying 'I I see'. Besides, you forgot to include 'it' in your translation. Den is a nice pronoun for 'it', but since you used ha earlier... im tíra ha or tíron ha...

Hope that helped.
Ranwen
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Post RE: Sindarin phrases??????
on: March 10, 2005 01:07
Thanks a lot Fíriel

Ranwen :hug:
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