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Ranwen
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Post Someone help, please
on: March 02, 2005 01:01
Hello,

I try to do a few translations, but I'm not sure if it is the best way to say it in Sindarin.

Wich evil? -> Man morgul?

Was his daughter (name).-> Na selleth dín (name)
(it's a line in a poem)

She gives Middle-earth peace -> Anno Enoor sîdh.

Have hope! -> Garo estel!

(name) is alive. -> (name) cuil.

Hannon le
Ranwen
Ailinel
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 02, 2005 03:41
>Na selleth dín

sell means "daughter, sellath is a collective plural.
I don't understand Na. If the reconstructed verb "to be" is intended, you should use the past tense.

>Anno Enoor sîdh

anno is either infinitive or imperative, you would want third person singular anna, and you left out "she".
sîdh should be lenited (direct object). The word order should rather follow the pattern Onen i-Estel Edain.
"Middle-earth" is Ennor

>alive -> cuil
"alive" = cuin (adjective)
~Caradhriel~
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 02, 2005 07:48
im not sure, but I think Hebo estel is better form of 'have hope.'

[Edited on 6/1/2006 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 02, 2005 10:35
heb- is 'keep' VT/41:6

ú-chebin estel anim
I have kept no hope for myself [LotR/A(v)] - this shows the lenited form. Garo would be correct there for 'have hope'

You could also, perhaps use amdir* (hope based on reason - MR/320)

heh - trying to get better at my 'citations'!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Ranwen
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 06, 2005 10:52
Le Hannon,
Ranwen :hug:
Ranwen
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 07, 2005 12:10
I make a second try...

She give Middle-earth peace -> Anna he sîdhui Ennor.

was his daughter -> nant sell dîn.

Please take a look at it

Ranwen
Ailinel
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 07, 2005 02:55

She give Middle-earth peace -> Anna he sîdhui Ennor.

was his daughter -> nant sell dîn.


"peace" = sîdh, and it should be lenited, as mentioned above.
I would place the pronoun before the verb (and I personally would prefer _e_ or _*se_).

D. Salo suggests third person singular, past tense *naun, non.
Ranwen
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 09, 2005 12:39
Hannon le,

I read that sîdh should be lenited, but because I just finished lesson 4 I still don't know how to do that...

So if someone could help?

Ranwen
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 09, 2005 06:29
To lenite a word beginning with s, change it to h.

I would translate 'She gives Middle-earth peace' as Anna hîdh an Ennor. It is less ambiguous than expressing it by word order alone. That's just my personal preference, of course.
Ailinel
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 09, 2005 07:48
Uialdil_i_degilbor,
since anna could be regarded as "personless form", you still would want a personal pronoun "she" to specify the agent, IMO.
Ranwen
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 10, 2005 01:03
Hannon le,
Ranwen :disco:
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 10, 2005 10:06
Uialdil_i_degilbor,
since anna could be regarded as "personless form", you still would want a personal pronoun "she" to specify the agent, IMO.


Why? We know it's third person because of the ending. Since we have no need to specify who 'she' is by using 'her' name, apparently the listener already knows who the subject of the sentence is. Since Sindarin doesn't need explicit subject pronouns except for emphasis, I would prefer to leave it out rather than use a hypothetical word. After all, we really don't know the Sindarin word for 'she.
Bellenion
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Post RE: Someone help, please
on: March 10, 2005 10:40
Uialdil_i_degilbor,
since anna could be regarded as "personless form", you still would want a personal pronoun "she" to specify the agent, IMO.


Why? We know it's third person because of the ending. Since we have no need to specify who 'she' is by using 'her' name, apparently the listener already knows who the subject of the sentence is. Since Sindarin doesn't need explicit subject pronouns except for emphasis, I would prefer to leave it out rather than use a hypothetical word. After all, we really don't know the Sindarin word for 'she.


That's also Thorsten Renk's assumption, although we have the usage of independent nominative appearing in the King's Letter: Ar e aníra ennas suilannad mhellyn în phain: edregol e aníra tírad i Cherdir Perhael..., and here I don't think the emphasized object is "the King himself" so that the nominative should be emphasized twice in the two different sentences.

But I agree the King's Letter maybe is only Tolkien's temporary trial/idea. I also suggest the omission of nominative for Neo Elvish composition due to the lack of attested words.
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