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Ranwen
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Post translation try...
on: March 06, 2005 11:32
Suilad,

I tryed of few other translations this weekend. I just finished lesson four so i'm not sure if I did everyting in those translations the right way.
So if somebody want to give feed-back....

The stars are veiled -> (i) elin narim hall.

Life will pass us by. -> Cuil ___ an___ mes.

We need to rest -> Boe îdh amman. (it is necessary rest to us)

We rest when we crossed the river -> Îdhim ir athradim sîr.

We ride on, after that we take some rest. -> Norim bo, ab ____ îdh.


And I try to make a surname into Sindarin,
greeneye -> hengalen.

Hannon le,
Ranwen.

Ailinel
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 07, 2005 03:29

>The stars are veiled -> (i) elin narim hall.
Since _elin_ is plural, the article and the adjective should be plural too. I don't understand _narim_.

>Life will pass us by. -> Cuil ___ an___ mes.
If a word doesn't exist in Sindarin, you should probably reword the English text.

>We need to rest -> Boe îdh amman. (it is necessary rest to us)
_ammen_

>We rest when we crossed the river -> Îdhim ir athradim sîr.
We have the noun _îdh_, maybe you should write something like "we shall have a rest". _athrada-_ should be in the past tense.

>We ride on, after that we take some rest. -> Norim bo, ab ____ îdh.
_nerim_
_bo_ is a preposition, cf. bo Ceven "on earth"
Ranwen
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 09, 2005 12:52
Hannon le Ailinel,

Here I make a second try...

The stars are veiled -> (in) elin ___ hall. (be-> na- -> (they) are -> narim?)

Life will pass us by-> Our live (will) end -> meth cuil vín.

We ride, we have rest after -> Nerim, abgarim îdh.

We rest when we crossed the river. -> Garim îdh, ir athrada__ sîr. (I don't know the past sense of athrada-, I just finished lesson 4)

Thanks for helping me,
Ranwen
Ailinel
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 09, 2005 10:59
Ranwen,

>The stars are veiled -> (in) elin ___ hall. (be-> na- -> (they) are -> narim?)

The adjective in this sentence is hall , and an adjective should agree with the noun it modifies in number, as mentioned above. So you would want the plural form.

The verb "to be" is not attested, and any form of this verb is completely hypothetic. In many sentences it can be simply omitted, eg. in your sentence :"The stars (are) veiled". The sense is perfectly clear and intelligible, because the adjective remains unlenited. (If you were to say "the veiled stars....", the adjective would show lenition.)

The verb "to be" was reconstructed by David Salo, according to phonological patterns, and he suggests that the (possible) third person plural 'they are' could be *nar. Your form _narim_ can not be sustained, and no-one would understand it.

I'm under the impression, that you are interested in learning Sindarin, not simply in having your sentences translated by someone else. You say that you have finished lesson four. Presumably there should be some basic information concerning "Plural Formation" as well as "Mutation Charts" within lesson two.

Personally, I have acquired a sound basic knowledge by Thorsten Renk's Sindarin course "Pedin Edhellen", which I can highly recommend!

If you want to try translations according to the information given in the lessons one to four on this site, I would advise to choose simpler sentences.

Of course I could do the translations to the best of my ability, but a comment on each feature would afford lengthy explanations, and maybe you will have more fun, if you know what you are doing.

Fíriel
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 09, 2005 11:19
[Ailinel wrote]
If you want to try translations according to the information given in the lessons one to four on this site, I would advise to choose simpler sentences.


Ranwen, I'd encourage you to complete more lessons, which (of course) would help greatly with your understanding of Sindarin, but if the various mutation lessons are proving to be an impediment in learning Sindarin... Remember, you don't have to memorise every mutation for every consonant, as long as you have the Mutations Chart to refer to (and you know how to read it!). As long as you know what type of mutation can occur (e.g. lenition, liquid mutation, or nasal mutation?...) and when (e.g. an triggers nasal mutation), you can complete the appropriate exercises and then move on to more enjoyable stuff like verbs. :evil:

Edit: clarified author of the quote (whose remarks prompted me to write this post).

[Edited on 10/3/2005 by Fíriel]
Ranwen
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 10, 2005 01:15
Hanno le, both of you.

I try to go on with the lessons, but a you can see i'm just a member of this sit sinse 14/02/2005. So thats the reason i'm just working on lesson five.

Ranwen
Naneth
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 10, 2005 01:56
Ranwen, the reason we go over the pluralizations and mutations first on our site, is that we feel it is imperative you have an understanding of them before you can construct sentences in the way Tolkien did. This is a language you can't just "jump into" and start translating without any knowledge of the basics, even though I know you are eager to do so.
Naneth
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 13, 2005 01:12
Here are my suggestions Ranwen. I think you did very good for a first try. Remember "rewording" is a very valuable method of making translations easier.

(in) elin ___ hall.
>>>> In elin gwethrennin.
The stars are veiled.
(I used the "passive voice" with the verb in this sentence.)

Life will pass us by.
Our lives will end.
>>>> Firitham.
We will die.
(Simple and "to the point".)

We ride, we have rest after -> Nerim, abgarim îdh.
We ride, rest will follow.
>>>> Nerim, îdh aphadatha.
(Just a little rewording can save wondering where to tag "ab-".)

We rest when we crossed the river. -> Garim îdh, ir athrada__ sîr.
We will have rest when we cross the river.
>>>> Geritham îdh ir athradam i hîr.
(Don't forget to lenit "sîr" after "i".)
Ranwen
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Post RE: translation try...
on: March 13, 2005 10:27
Hannon le,
Ranwen :disco:
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