Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » Discuss the Books » Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
Author Topic:
Elerrina
Lady of the Golden Wood
Posts: 2026
Send Message
Avatar
Post Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 22, 2002 08:16
Ellerrina wanted to know what elves eat:

Lembas was likened to a bread or pastry wafer/cake... and far surpassing all man-made pastries for flavor & nutrition. But that was for travel...

What else did they eat??? Were they vegetarians? Or did they hunt for animals and eat meat? Did they raise veggies and grains? They had fine horses, but did they keep cattle as well? How did they make candles without tallow? Hmmmm????

M replied:On the habits of Elves and their more mundane aspects Tolkien is often quite silent. It often appears as if Elves can feed, clothe and house themselves without much thought nor effort. He does describe somewhat in the Silmarillion the building of great cities, ships etc but there is very little detail ie are there worker elves? what tools do they use etc.He does make reference to women sewing and cooking but not where, when or how or with what.

One might think from the basic nature of Elves and their ability to communicate with animals that they would be vegetarians yet there is no evidence that says they are not omnivorous as we are.

Their food and wine seems to spring from nowhere and is always filling and the most tasty. In his idealising of the Elves Tolkien has put them on another level from Mortal creatures who must constantly think of food and shelter.

For instance in the Silmarillion many of the Noldor are forced to walk across the wastes of the north and this takes years, decades possibly centuries yet nothing is said of food, water or clothing. Some Elves are said to have died on this journey but many, Galadriel included, survive but how did they do that with no provisions???

My biggest question has always been where do they go to the bathroom, do Elves need to pee? Apparently nobody in ME goes to the bathroom, how long can a Hobbit hold it?

ED: …so we’ll deal with Calls of Nature first.

Alya: M - let me introduce you to the basic methods of peeing - streams, bushes, and trees. Stop being embarrassed - any backpacker or even hiker knows that when nature calls, you must answer, no matter where you are. So that's my answer.

ED: I haven’t noticed much of this in other books either, unless it is essential to the plot (i.e. Moaning Myrtle and the Haunted Bathroom in Harry Potter) … er … or the atmosphere … (better not think about that.)

Hathaldir:I never imagined elves being vegetarians(I don't think I understood that concept when dad first read me The Hobbit...). I always imagined them hunting in the forests, so they'd get mainly venison. I for one, cannot see an elf being a chicken farmer. It seems to undignified for an immortal being.

I just checked my copy of "The Hobbit", and here is a quote from the chapter "Flies and Spiders", when the dwarves and Bilbo see the elves in a clearing in Mirkwood: "The smell of roast meats was so enchanting..."

They must have had something for trade with men (proably beautifully-worked gems, and bows and arrows and things) because later on in "The Hobbit" it says: "The wine, and other goods, were brought from far away, from their kinsfolk in the South or from the vinyards of Men in distant lands." and also "'On your head be it, if the king's full butter tubs and his best wine are pushed into the river for the Lake-men to feast on for nothing!" That last comment implies that they do trade for something, we just don't know what. I think it will be one of Tolkien's unsolvable mysteries.

Aule:I'm not going anywhere near the Elvish toilet question, but here's a bit about farming and basket weaving ...
Peoples of Middle-earth, 'Of Lembas'
[...] For it [lembas] was made of a kind of corn which Yavanna brought forth in the fields of Aman, [...] The Eldar grew it in guarded lands and sunlit glades; and they gathered iits great golden ears, each one, by hand, and set no blade of metal to it.The white haulm was drawn from the earth in like manner, and woven into corn-leep* for the storing of the grain: [...] From the ear to the wafer none were permitted to handle this grain, save those elven-women who were called Yavannildi (or by the Sindar the Ivonwin), the maidens of Yavanna; [...]

* haulm: the stalks of cultivated plants left when the ears or pods have been gathered; corn-leeps: leep (leap) is an old dialect word for a basket (Old English leap).
PotbellyHairyfoot: I always thought that the Elves were more of the hunter-gatherer type than farmers.

In The Hobbit it is mentioned that Bilbo and the dwarves could smell meat when they chased after the elves in mirkwood but I can't find any reference to meat being eaten by elves in LOTR- For Example- When Frodo et al meet up with Gildor in the Shire they get a breakfast of bread and fruits.
Of the meals eaten in Rivendell and Lothlorien there are no clear details of what was served.

The two main populations of sylvan elves both lived in forests and probably harvested most of what they needed from the trees without the need for farming. They did keep the poulation low by not having many children and could probably get by quite nicely on what they could harvest and - in the case of the Mirkwood elves - trade for.

As for midden breaks- that is almost never mentioned in books.

Falagar: Fingolfin and his host used about 27 years on their travel through the Helcaraxë. Maedhros hung from Thangodrim for 23-24 years (one may wonder what he ate).

ED: Same as the Inuit people I expect. Seal and whale and fish.

Sindarinelvish: You can imagine the Lorien elves eating nuts, berries, venison and maybe a pheasant or two, but Elrond was running the Grand Hotel of Middle Earth...he had to harvest, trade, barter, or buy as any good hotel concierge would...probably why any elf who was important showed up at Rivendell.

Heck, Gil-galad and Elendil hung out there for years before they headed on south to battle. Erestor must have been really wigged out trying to arrange the staff to feed and made up the beds for all those soldiers.

Elrond set a great table and everyone in ME knew it, so he had to be serving more than seeds and leaves.

I'd guess by the climate and the topography, Imladris might have had an excellent winery.

As far as cash: remember who was the herald of Gil-galad and probably knew where the wealth of Lindon was kept. If Gil gave him his ring of power, he probably also handed over the government bonds and national treasury. I think Elrond was probably pretty wealthy in ME terms.

Elerrina: Food? I would say they eat all sorts of different things from trees (nuts, berries, roots, etc.), and probably bread and meat as well. Pretty much your average Medieval meal. And I hope they didn't have chocolate. Imagine Orcs on a sugar high!

Nevaratoiel: My thoughts about elves being vegetarians or not are based on contradiction. As I can see that elves would be natural vegetarians, because they value nature and are 'one' with it. On the other side, I do see elves are hunters, striking their prey with their flaw-fletched arrows. It's just too beautiful to not think of that. For me it's bothways, what to believe, what to think.

[Edited on 28/12/2007 by cirdaneth]
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 15, 2012 02:23
*bump
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 17, 2012 04:26
From The Silmarillion, Of The Coming Of Men Into The West:
"And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends..."
This from the Green Elves, so they at least were veggies.
Hangman Helper program
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 18, 2012 12:09
Ooh! That's interesting Tarcolan. I hadn't picked up on that. The Lothlorien elves had furs and leather, so they presumably hunted. I suppose even elves evolved different life-styles over time. Can anyone else add to this?
ElfofCave
Council Member
Posts: 11
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 18, 2012 10:27
The only other reference to elven diet not already mentioned that I know of is this:

On a time was Turin at the table of Thingol --
there was laughter long and the loud clamour
of a countless company that quaffed the mead,
amid the wine of Dor-Winion that went ungrudged
in their golden goblets; and goodly meats
there burdened the boards, neath the blazing torches
set high in.those halls that were hewn of stone.
(HoMe - The Lays of Beleriand)


So apart from the Green Elves of Ossiriand, I would say the Elves were generally omnivores.

One thing I do know for sure is that hunter-gathering cannot support large groups of immobile people. Therefore kingdoms/large settlements like Mirkwood, Lothlórien, Imladris, Mithlond, Lindon, Gondolin, Nargothrond, Doriath etc. were dependant on agricultural production. Hunter-gathering would be a way to supplement their diet, but an area’s natural resources would quickly dry up if these large communities had relied mainly on this kind of strategy to feed the people.

Sure, small, relative mobile groups like Gildor’s company and small, stationary groups could survive by hunting and/or gathering alone.

Hathaldir: I for one, cannot see an elf being a chicken farmer. It seems to undignified for an immortal being.


I don’t see why Elves should be different from humans in that respect: some will seek glory while others are content to live a simple life. What different people perceive as undignified is very individual – besides, helping to keep your community fed is just as important as keeping it safe from enemies.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 19, 2012 01:59
I find it odd that they imported wine from Dorwinien. I'd always assumed they would be better than Men at everything. I think they would have been more efficient at food production, so that there'd be little sign of it in the landscape.
The original post mentions medicine but nothing has been said so far. As they didn't get ill there would be no need of it for themselves, except perhaps salves for bad wounds. It's likely the main use of medicine was magical, to combat wounds such as Frodo received, although I suspect that the innate healing power of those such as Elrond and Aragorn was more important.
Hangman Helper program
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 20, 2012 02:25
I'd imagine them importing all agricultural produce from elsewhere in return for game, leather, furs and managed timber (coppicing etc). I can't see them clearing large areas of forest for crops, especially as they were so secretive.
ElfofCave
Council Member
Posts: 11
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Elf-Life 4 - Food & Medicine.
on: May 21, 2012 01:37
Quote from cirdaneth on May 21, 2012, 00:25
I'd imagine them importing all agricultural produce from elsewhere in return for game, leather, furs and managed timber (coppicing etc). I can't see them clearing large areas of forest for crops, especially as they were so secretive.


But going from town to town and barter for produce and transport these huge quanteties of comestibles home isn't exactly secretive either

It's also a very risky strategy to be completely dependant on imported produce to feed your people, but if there were no other options they didn't have much of a choice. Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that the elven realms - especially forest realms like Mirkwood and Lothlórien - had small sattelite settlements that produced the agricultural comestibles necessary. But that's just my thoughts.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email