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Deagol112LotR
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Post copyright laws for writing
on: January 10, 2006 01:04
I was wondering if anyone knew the copyright laws for publishing a book. If I were to write a book, would I be able to use Tolkien's elvish launguge in it? Also, what about his versions of elves, orcs, dwarves, wizards, and of course hobbits.
Please let me know if you know anything about this!
musicalgal123
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 10, 2006 02:37
No, I do not know about the copyright laws... But, I believe that the chances are very good that your book won't be published if you use Tolkien's elvish language in it. As it wasn't your work (you could say) then it would be considered plagirising (sp?). I think the same holds true with the races.

I think you could use the terms elves, dwarves, and wizards because I know they have been around in many different forms long before Tolkien, but I don't think you can use Tolkien's versions of them. Hobbits and orcs on the other hand, I believe are Tolkien's creations and therefor probobly can't be used.

I'm not 100% sure on any of this, but I am 99% sure. I think if you were going to use his races and languages you'd be better off calling it a fanfiction than a book for publishing.

I hope this helps some.
Deagol112LotR
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 10, 2006 04:31
Thanks!
I was like 99% that you couldn't use the language... but there is always that 1% so I might as well ask!
Rivka
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 10, 2006 07:49
I can help a bit more -- I'm not a lawyer, but I am/was a librarian, so I've studied copyright a good bit.

Anything using Tolkien's characters, places, languages, etc. in a fictional setting would be considered a derivative work -- and without the copyright owner's permission, trying to publish the work would be a violation of copyright (and therefore illegal).

There are some things that are iffy -- elves, orcs, and a lot of the fantastical beings that Tolkien wrote about have existed in mythology and older stories, and so you can use beings in your work that are called the same things (so long as you don't call the world that your work takes place in "Middle-Earth" and your orc/elves/whatever didn't bear a close resemblance to Tolkien's creations ). "Hobbit" is a different matter; there is some talk about whether or not he "invented" the word, but whether or not he did, you'd probably get looked at very closely by the Tolkien Estate lawyers if you tried to publish a work of fantasy that contained Hobbits (I'd hazard a guess that while the word Hobbit isn't copyrighted -- you can't copyright a single word -- it probably is trademarked, and so you'd get into legal issues there).

The languages are an interesting situation -- you can't copyright a language. The Klingon language from Star Trek is a good example; they can copyright the dictionaries that contain the words, but you can't really copyright the language itself. Still, to be safe, I'd say you probably couldn't publish a work that contained the Elvish languages without the permission of the Tolkien Estate.
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
j_mercuryuk
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 11, 2006 01:13
I don't think Tolkien invent Orcs (partly as they can be seen in other places), but I'm really not sure about Hobbits.

[Edited on 11/1/2006 by j_mercuryuk]
CelticMoon
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 12, 2006 01:44
Well, I'm a huge fan of Fantasy and I've read tons of books with orcs in them, mainly RA Salvatore's work (really good by the way, I recommend him). RA Salvatore also using halflings, and though he doesn't call them hobbits they are just that as they are described almost exactly down to their hairy feet. I think the word Hobbit can not be used but Halfling is a world-wide term for smaller people.
As for languages, I have no idea!
VendeaErunyauve
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 12, 2006 06:25
The Tolkien estate does not allow u se of the word "hobbit." The word "halfling" is the suggested alternative as it is not Tolkien's creation.
Deagol112LotR
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 13, 2006 11:55
Thanks everyone! That helped a lot... but I am really confused! Didn't Tolkien make up Middle Earth? I am currently reading the Sea of Trolls and Nancy Farmer uses Middle Earth. How does that work...?
musicalgal123
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 16, 2006 09:00
Is it the exact same middle earth or is it a different middle earth that's just called middle earth?
Deagol112LotR
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 17, 2006 11:56
it's a different Middle Earth, but I just thought the name would be copywrited or something like that
Fíriel
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: January 17, 2006 06:44
Deagol, for languages, you might find Carl Hostetter's opinion on copyright interesting -- he's the editor of Vinyar Tengwar, a scholarly journal about Tolkien's languages, and deals with the Tolkien Estate constantly, as I understand it.

There's an interesting quote to mull over:

Because of the way this issue is repeatedly misrepresented, I must point out the obvious fact that none of this means that it is necessary to receive anyone's permission to write about or even in Tolkien's invented languages, so long, of course, as the limits of Fair Use and/or other applicable copyright law as regards the amount and proportionality of quotation, the nature of its use, etc., are observed.


... however, you might be better off 'making up' a language as such.

EDIT: Almost forgot to reply to this as well:

Didn't Tolkien make up Middle Earth? I am currently reading the Sea of Trolls and Nancy Farmer uses Middle Earth. How does that work...?


The name (as opposed to the world) of 'Middle Earth' does occur elsewhere... Midgard, which means 'middle earth' for the most part, was a world in Norse mythology which existed between Asgard and Niflheim (the realm of the gods and the other of bad deaths and evil people, respectively) -- 'Midgard' actually might've served as inspiration for the naming of the land created by Tolkien, I can't remember ATM. The concept exists in other cultures as well, such as the 'Middle Kingdom' (between Heaven and Hell) of China.

[Edited on 18/1/2006 by Fíriel]
Feylinn
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Post RE: copyright laws for writing
on: October 06, 2010 07:34
The term 'Middle Earth' is another one of those universally known place/people names, like Halflings. In fact, in our own modern world, we have a Middle Earth! Guess what the English translation of the word 'Mediterranean' means? That's right- it means 'Middle Earth'! I learned that in a Food Anthropology class; as soon as the teacher announced that, I immediately shrieked "FRODO!!" and bust out laughing.

Only three other people understood what was going through my head...
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