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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post QOTW-Mar7/06; 3-I The Disaster of the Gladden Fields
on: March 06, 2006 12:54
(I've tried composing questions , but I'm afraid that after all this time doing so, I'm now stuck with doing quotes)


King Elessar , searching in Orthanc.
At last behind a hidden door that they could not have found or opened had not Ellessar had the aid of Gimli the Dwarf a steel closet was revealed. Maybe it had been intended to receive the Ring; but it was almost bare. In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid. One was a small case of gold , attached to a fine chain; it was empty and bore no letter or token, but beyond all doubt it had once borne the Ring around Isuldur's neck. Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost forever: the Elendimir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril that had descended from Siulmarien to Elendil, and been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom.




[Edited on 11/3/2006 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Rulea
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Post RE: QOTW-Mar7/06; 3-I The Disaster of the Gladden Fields
on: March 08, 2006 07:37
Good quote!
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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: QOTW-Mar7/06; 3-I The Disaster of the Gladden Fields
on: March 11, 2006 12:36
Saruman must have been planning to supplant Sauron as soon as he found the Ring. Althogh he seemed to be following Sauron, did he actually think of himself as an ally to him and an equal rather than a follower?
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: QOTW-Mar7/06; 3-I The Disaster of the Gladden Fields
on: March 13, 2006 04:04
Saruman had delusions of grandeur. He fully intended to allow Sauron to believe he was on his side, at least until Middle Earth was defeated. But then he planned to take the power himself. Tolkien himself made Saruman's position clear during his meeting with Gandalf (in the Fellowship of the Ring:The Council of Elrond, where Gandalf explains Saruman's betrayal).

"The Elder Days are gone. The Middle Days are passing. The Younger Days are beginning. The time of the Elves is over, but our time is at hand: the world of Men, which We must rule. But we must have power, power to order all things as we will, for that good which only the Wise can see.

And listen, Gandalf, my old friend and helper!" he said, coming near and speaking now in a softer voice. "I said we, for we it may be, if you will join with me. A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Númenor. This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand; and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its course, to control it. We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means.


And further along:
Why not? The Ruling Ring? If we could command that, then the Power would pass to us.


It is obvious that Saruman is 'playing' Sauron along, in the hope of finally achieving power even over the Great Eye. What does he say? "....with patience come at last to direct its course, to control it. Or further, "Why not? The Ruling Ring? If we could command that, then the Power would pass to us.

I don't believe Saruman wished to be either an equal or a follower. I think he wanted to rule Middle Earth solely in any way he could.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
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