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nightstalker713
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Post Lesson Three Plurals...
on: May 21, 2009 04:49
Can anyone tell me...
for the lesson 3 exercises for sindarin workbook, do you still have to use the lesson two changes in the spelling for making plurals as well as use the ones in lesson three...or no?
gwendeth
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Post RE: Lesson Three Plurals...
on: May 26, 2009 06:47
Suilad,

If you're speaking of part 1 of the Lesson 3 exercises, yes. For part 2, no, you're working on the class plurals.
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
KyroBrandar
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on: January 13, 2014 04:43
I'm a bit confused on lesson 3 exercise one...
for example Thoron = eagle, Theryn = eagles, Thoronnath = all eagles, why not Therynnath?
Another example Dagor = battle, Degyr = battles, dagorath = all battles, why not degyrath
Galadivren
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on: January 14, 2014 03:56
The attested examples we have are:
Sellath = all daughters
Ionnath = all sons
Giliath = all stars
Ennorath = Middle Earth (all middle lands)
Periannath = Halflings, the race of (all hobbits)

None of these show plural mutation before the suffix -ath is added.

Edit - and Dagorath! This is also an attested word.

[Edited on 01/14/2014 by Galadivren]
findemaxam48
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on: January 19, 2014 06:58
So the suffix -ath means all? Just for my own clarification.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
Galadivren
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on: January 20, 2014 03:27
Yip! 'all of ____'.
findemaxam48
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on: January 23, 2014 02:42
Thanks much. All of the slight confusion vanished.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
MelyannaMellyrn
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on: March 30, 2014 07:08
Hi... I am working on Lesson 3 right now, and I am still confused on the second practice. The directions say to apply the -hoth or -rim suffix to each word, but do I use the plural mutations from lesson 2 and apply the suffix, just use the suffix, or something else?
Thanks! Melyanna
"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, not the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
Galadivren
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on: March 31, 2014 03:46
From what we know and understand, you can attach -hoth (which if it doesn't explicitly say in the lesson should only be used for evil peoples really) without changing the word (Gaur -> Gaurhoth, Glam -> Glamhoth).

-rim does have rules to adhere to
If the last letter is -
L -> change the ending to LLIM (Edhel -> Edhellim)
N/NN that comes from ND -> change the ending to NDRIM
NN (that doesn't come from ND) -> change the ending to DHRIM
S/SS/ST -> change the ending to THRIM

You don't need to do plural mutation on the words.
MelyannaMellyrn
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on: April 07, 2014 09:57
Thank you! That helped a lot Melyanna
"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, not the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
Jedi Knight Elrohir Sparrow
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on: July 10, 2014 06:44
Okay, so I'm really struggling with the Sindarin. I'm on lesson three: plurals, and I'm kinda confused. Could someone pretty please explain it to a dummy like me?
"A time may come soon, when none will return. Then there will be need of valour without renown, for none shall remember the deeds that are done in the last defence of your homes. Yet the deeds will not be less valiant because they are unpraised." --Aragorn, Return of the King, pg. 767
Galadivren
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on: July 14, 2014 11:55
I'm sorry no one had replied to you yet (I myself have been away). What is it you're having trouble with on this lesson?
ElfwithAtatude
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on: August 25, 2014 03:46
Hello, I'm also on lesson three and I can see I'm not the only one confused. The chart they have for the plurals doesn't really make sense to me, can someone please help explain it to me??
Image "We all change when you think about it. We're all different people all through out our lives. And that's okay. That's good. You gotta keep moving so long as you remember all the people that you used to be." -- The 11th Doctor
Jedi Knight Elrohir Sparrow
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on: August 25, 2014 05:57
Oh sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I'm so sorry but actuallyIve been getting help from my sindarin teacher. Thank you so much though. YOU ROCK FOR HELPING ME!!
"A time may come soon, when none will return. Then there will be need of valour without renown, for none shall remember the deeds that are done in the last defence of your homes. Yet the deeds will not be less valiant because they are unpraised." --Aragorn, Return of the King, pg. 767
iamnoman18
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on: January 31, 2015 05:57
So I'm going to revive this thread after a couple months because I have a question on this particular lesson as well, and I don't want to start a whole new thread.
So there are some words that take "ath" or "iath" that take two ns. For example Perian ---> Periannath. Why does it take two ns instead of just keeping the one it already has? Does it take the extra n because it already ends in n? I looked through the lesson and it doesn't seem to really explain that. Is this a silly question? Thanks for your help!

Edit: Also, I just had a real quick question on the workbook for Lesson 1...sorry, I know this doesn't belong here, but I don't want to start an entire new thread for something very easy. So on the first lesson, we're supposed to find where the stress goes in a word, and I'm having trouble with alfirin. Is it Alfirin, rather than alfIrin, because the IR is a dipthong and counts as one consonant? Thanks!

[Edited on 02/01/2015 by iamnoman18]
Galadivren
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on: February 01, 2015 02:41
-ath has its own rules, that we can determine from looking at all of the attested words that use it:

If the last letter of the word (before -ath is added) is:
A -> changes to O
F -> changest to V (same pronunciation but makes it more obvious that the 'v' sound remains after -ath is added)
LT -> changes to L
M -> changes to MM
N/NN/NT -> changes to NN
NC -> changes to NG
S -> changes to SS
OL/EL/OR -> changes to either L or R

Stress on Alfirin falls thusly - al-FIR-in.
This is because:
In any word of more than two syllables, we first check for penultimate syllable stress. This is used when the penultimate syllable contains a long vowel (any accented vowel, or diphthong, as well as A, U and Y). We also use this pattern if the syllable is a vowel (any vowel) followed by two or more consonants.
As IR is one of the three vowel/consonant combinations (where the vowel is long), it falls on FIR.

[Edited on 02/02/2015 by Galadivren]
Tyrhael
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on: February 01, 2015 07:52
Galadivren said:
As IR is a diphthong, it falls on FIR.

Could you please explain why you think IR is a diphthong? The workbook says (lesson 1, phon. + stress) that they are "a combination of two consecutive vowels that represent a single sound. The Sindarin diphthongs are: AE, AI, EI, OE, UI and AU."

[Edited on 02/02/2015 by Tyrhael]
iamnoman18
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on: February 01, 2015 10:23
Thank you for your help and explanation!
Galadivren
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on: February 02, 2015 05:22
I wrote one thing and intended another as I was paraphrasing from my own site. Clearly it isn't a diphthong, and I meant 'vowel/consonant combination' - which highlights an edit I need to make on my site as I'd forgotten to mention those within this part of explaining stress. Hence the omission.

[Edited on 02/02/2015 by Galadivren]
Tyrhael
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on: February 02, 2015 03:31
Thanks - I was a bit confused.
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