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PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: August 17, 2009 05:02
1) What are the differences, if any, between the effects the Silmarils had on Feanor, and Melkor?

2) Why do the Silmarils have such a great effect on those who see them?

3) Why were the Noldor more susceptaible to the lies of Melkor and why would Melkor decide to teach the Noldor about weaponry?

4) When Feanor cursed Melkor and shut the door in his face, why was his father filled with fear?

5) How would you describe Feanor's and Fingolfin's relationship with their father, and with each other?
oiotari
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Post RE: III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: August 20, 2009 05:32
1) What are the differences, if any, between the effects the Silmarils had on Feanor, and Melkor?
well, all that comes to mind at the moment is that Feanor was possess/protective of the Silmarils and was wary of anyone being to close to them, while Melkor wanted to take them for himself. However, that is merely dependant on who actually has the Silmarils at the time. That's all I can think of from this chapter.

2) Why do the Silmarils have such a great effect on those who see them?
Just as the the three lords of the elves that were brought to Aman and saw the light of the trees longed to return there with their kindred, the Silmarils contained the light of the trees, so those who saw them longed for them. A theory at least.

3) Why were the Noldor more susceptaible to the lies of Melkor and why would Melkor decide to teach the Noldor about weaponry?
Perhaps they were more suseptaible to the lies because the Noldor in particular thristed for knowlege and therefore ... (sorry lost my train of thought)

4) When Feanor cursed Melkor and shut the door in his face, why was his father filled with fear?
Maybe because he awoke at Cuiviénen Finwë knew to a fuller extent the wrath of Melkor, as opposed to Fëanor, who was born in the bliss of Aman.

5) How would you describe Feanor's and Fingolfin's relationship with their father, and with each other?
Fëanor recieved more of his father's love, but that is not to say that Finwë did not love Fingolfin. There was definately a rivalry between the two brothers, but it was rather one sided.
Sitara
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Post RE: III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: August 21, 2009 02:22
1) What are the differences, if any, between the effects the Silmarils had on Feanor, and Melkor?

According to Tolkien, Feanor’s purpose to make the Silmarils was, without forgetting about the Eldar’s fascination with the Light of the Two Trees, fascination that might have been exacerbated by Feanor’s passionate nature, a sort of foreknowledge, something telling him that the Light “must” be preserved , for an unknown development. Well, only to think that this Light was actually the catalyst for the Remaking of Arda……

Melkor, on the other hand, had never thought about anything else than his lust for power and desire to get revenge. Even if he too was fascinated with the purity of the Light of the Trees, he never thought to use it for a good purpose. He only wanted to have and twist it for his own ends.

Granted, Feanor became afterwards enthralled with the work of his hands but it wasn’t always this way. He had among his reasons to make the Jewels also the desire to preserve this Light for a good purpose. And the Light of the Silmarils has been used as a weapon more than once. Earendil and Frodo could testify it, in my view.

2) Why do the Silmarils have such a great effect on those who see them?

In my opinion, the ultimate reason for one to be so utterly fascinated at their sight has to do with the Remaking as well. It’s about some sort of longing, in my opinion, as was the case, making a parallel, for the Numenoreans who longed to live forever and enjoy the beauty of Arda. The Valar’s heralds told them that Eru doesn’t do things without a purpose. I believe here might have been the case as well.

3) Why were the Noldor more susceptaible to the lies of Melkor and why would Melkor decide to teach the Noldor about weaponry?

Obviously, because of their thirst for knowledge. Knowledge without wisdom is a lethal combination, I think. From the three Elven kindreds, Noldor were doubtless the most susceptible to Melkor’s half-truths, I’m afraid.

4) When Feanor cursed Melkor and shut the door in his face, why was his father filled with fear?

Finwe knew about Melkor’s doings during the war between the Valar and no doubt he’d seen many of his fellow Elves dissapearing, never to be found again. Or, at least, not in that shape. Feanor, on the other hand, was already beyond caution and, judging by Morgoth’s reaction when he found about Feanor’s coming after him in Middle-earth, perhaps he was justly feared by the Vala. It’s written in the Silmarillion that , even if Morgoth’s heart was black with fury at the insult, he didn’t dare to retaliate and left unsure about what he could have awakened in Feanor’s heart.

5) How would you describe Feanor's and Fingolfin's relationship with their father, and with each other?

Tolkien describes both the High Princes of the Noldor as being great. Also, each was jealous of the other, for both their father’s affection and their possesion. I don’t have any doubt that Finwe loved all his children. Taking into account the fact that their son was all he had left of Miriel, it was hard for Finwe to avoid loving Feanor , perhaps not more than his other children, but in a different manner. Unfortunately, loving a great deal your child doesn’t make you necessarily a good father, I believe.

As for the brothers…usually all the fingers point in Feanor’s direction, but the truth is that all the Noldor, Fingolfin included, had become proud and arrogant. One has only to think about the translation of his Sindarin name.
cirdaneth
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Post RE: III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: November 08, 2009 07:20
1) What are the differences, if any, between the effects the Silmarils had on Feanor, and Melkor?

Feanor's original intention in making the Silmarils was to preserve the light of the trees, whereas Melkor sougt to posess them, not so much for their beauty, but to deprove others of them.

2) Why do the Silmarils have such a great effect on those who see them?

The Silmarils had an awesome h oldover everyone partly because they held the light of the trees, but also because of Feanor's skill in making them. Yet they semed to have been infused with Feanor's arrogance too, and seduced even the Valar who became annoyed that they were not given charge of them.

3) Why were the Noldor more susceptaible to the lies of Melkor and why would Melkor decide to teach the Noldor about weaponry?

The susceptibility of the Noldor had its roots in the special circumstances of Finwe's controversial second marriage. The faact that this produced two more sons made it easy for Melkor to foment strife between them. Having convinced all of the Noldor that they were under threat it was easy to persuade them they needed weapons. Once they had these it was only a matter of time before they were used.

4) When Feanor cursed Melkor and shut the door in his face, why was his father filled with fear?

In this section Melkor is described as the "mightiest" of the Valar. "Might" originally meant "potential" and I believe Tolkien uses it in that sense. Therefore it does not mean that Melkor is the strongest, or the most powerful, but that he has gifts he could develop for good or ill, and Finwe recognises that and fears that Feanor's action may skew Melkor further towards evil.

5) How would you describe Feanor's and Fingolfin's relationship with their father, and with each other?

Finwe obviously loves all his sons, but has special care for Feanor because he is the eldest and his heir, and because he was deprived of his mother. The younger sons seem to accept this but become wary of Feanor as Melkor's promptings drive him toward paranoia.
Ilandir
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Post RE: III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: November 10, 2009 10:00
2) Why do the Silmarils have such a great effect on those who see them?
The Two Trees had been destroyed by Morgoth and Ungoliant and their absence was much noticed in the people of Aman. The jewels, having within themselves the last surviving light of the Two Trees, would have created such longing for the beauty of the trees.

3) Why were the Noldor more susceptaible to the lies of Melkor and why would Melkor decide to teach the Noldor about weaponry?
The Noldor were the most powerful of the Elven kindreds. Power brings along pride, but at the same time, weakness too. The Noldor would have believed Melkor's lies, for they can be considered as being like him - in the sense that they thought they could out-do everyone and with everything.

Melkor would have indeed wanted to use the strength of the Noldor against the other Elves and the Valar. By teaching them on weaponry, he might have been hoping of corrupting the Noldor and would help him conquer over Aman.
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musicofainur
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Post RE: III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: December 29, 2009 08:02
2) Why do the Silmarils have such a great effect on those who see them?
It's the light of the trees! Does any dislike the light? ( Shallow explanation. More coming soon to a sentence near this one!)

3) Why were the Noldor more susceptible to the lies of Melkor and why would Melkor decide to teach the Noldor about weaponry?
I think I read it somewhere (I believe it was from Valaquenta, or somewhere early in the Quenta Silmarillion) that the Noldor delighted in acquiring knowledge. It is their nature to listen to the news of the world. Melkor was hated and unheeded by the Noldor, but his lies were accepted by a Noldor who would spread the the words to others.
Melkor taught the Noldor about weaponry? I must've missed that part or have forgotten about it! I prefer the latter one to be true.

4) When Feanor cursed Melkor and shut the door in his face, why was his father filled with fear?
I'm not sure of my theory, but here goes : Finwe knew that Melkor wanted the Silmarils and realise that Melkor is scheming a plot to obtain it. He fears such event occurring and he sends a messenger with the news to the Valars.

5) How would you describe Feanor's and Fingolfin's relationship with their father, and with each other?
Feanor was Finwe's eldest son and I would believe that he was his father's favorite (Finwe went with Feanor to Formenos when Feanor was banned for 12 years). Fingolfin was also loved by Finwe, only less so.
We all know how Feanor disliked his half-brothers and step mother. I imagined Fingolfin also did not treat Feanor with much reverence.

[Edited on 11/1/2010 by musicofainur]
Gwenniel
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Post RE: III.7 Of the Silmarils and The Unrest of The Noldor
on: January 10, 2010 02:47
1. Feanor wanted them because they were made by him and he of course wanted to keep them to himself as a proof of his talents. He became greedy.
I think Melkor wanted because he was greedy, too, and he wanted them. After all the light was from the Two trees, and since Melkor had poisoned the Two Trees it would have been foolish not to steal the Silmarils because by their help the Valar could have saved the Trees and Melkors work would have been in vain.

2 They are beautiful. That´s it. Their light might be even hypnotizing. Shiny, shiny stuff.

4 He was worried because of his son. Finwe knew how evil Melkor could be, and that to anger him wasn´t wise at all. He also knew Feanor´s temperament.

5 Well, Feanor and Fingolfin disliked each other, of course. Maybe Finwe liked Feanor a bit more because he, in a way, reminded him of the time with Míriel.
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