Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » Discuss the Books » Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
Author Topic:
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: December 12, 2009 12:14
I was wondering about this line,
...for his father was dearer to him than the Light of Valinor or the peerless works of his hands...

Does this mean that he loved his father more than the Silmarils?
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 11, 2012 06:59
This is a very interesting point, and although originally posted three years ago, is well worth discussing.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 12, 2012 06:08
What was Tolkien implying here?
The greater part of grief is the loss of opportunity, in Feanor's case to accept his father's choice to remarry and to reconcile their differences. At his father's death Feanor realised he had lost that opportunity. Was what followed a redirection of his self-hatred? A fey and wanton destruction of himself and his family? It happens.
Hangman Helper program
RangerStryder
Council Member
Posts: 22
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 12, 2012 01:35
He love his father above all else including the Sils.
~nólemë~
Fan Creations Admin & Creations Forum Moderator
Posts: 10427
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 12, 2012 08:54
Quote from starofdunedain on December 12, 2009, 22:14
I was wondering about this line,
...for his father was dearer to him than the Light of Valinor or the peerless works of his hands...

Does this mean that he loved his father more than the Silmarils?


That's my reading of that passage too. It's interesting that the same words are used in both HoME accounts of Finwe's death, so it's likely something JRRT himself felt sure about. The only direct counter-evidence (not counting Feanor's later words and deeds, which concerned mostly the silmarils) would be Fingolfin's words about how Feanor "seeks first his stolen jewels" rather than avenge his father, but then, Fingolfin, especially at this stage, is probably a somewhat biased source.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 14, 2012 02:30
I wonder if this is not so much about love as about attachment. Feanor had attachment issues because his mother abandoned her life. His attachment then focussed on his father and their joint grief.

Finwe, eventually moved on and one might think Feanor would feel abandoned by him, but his attachment was so great that he shifted his anger onto his step-mother, his brothers, and anyone who came in the way of the private father-son grief club that had made him feel he belonged somewhere. When Finwe went into exile with him he must have felt he could revive it.

Melkor spotted Feanor's weak spot at once and played upon it until Feanor was ready to blame even the Valar for his unhappiness. On Finwe's death his attachment focussed on the Silamrils, leading him to swear his terrible oath.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 14, 2012 07:02
...father-son grief club that had made him feel he belonged somewhere.
I'm not so sure he wanted to belong, more that he wanted to possess and was jealous of any who had his father's love, save his mother. Is that what you mean by attachment? He was always a bit of a loner and when his father remarried Feanor went off on his own and buried himself in his work. Did he have much to do with Finwe after that? That's what makes me think that despite his love for Finwe he harboured a grudge, and this internal conflict was unresolved at his father's death.
Hangman Helper program
starofdunedain
Council Member
Posts: 1747
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 14, 2012 07:21
You know I completely forgot I made this topic. When I saw it I thought 'oh cool someone's created a topic about Feanor'.
I do think that because the elves didn't have much experience with death that no one really knew much about how to handle grief. It makes me wonder why someone like Nienna wouldn't try to counsel them both about Miriel's death?
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 15, 2012 03:13
Good point star, and even more reason to cut Feanor some slack. For those born in Aman, the death of Miriel was the first they had experienced (I think). I'm sure Nienna would have comforted Finwe at least. Feanor would have known of it but not understood until his father was killed, and there was too much else going on for him to come to terms with it. Another thought occurs to me; did Feanor know why Miriel gave up living? That would be hard to bear.
Hangman Helper program
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 16, 2012 11:17
Phew! The points raised have led me quite a journey. Books all over the floor, bed, table,... making a small space to eat. I'm just coming up for air. Anyway ...

Grief: Those elves originating in M.E. will have known bereavement through the predations of Melkor and his servants, even though they didn't know who/what was behind the disappearance of their kin.

Finwe is described as 'grieving' when Elwe went missing, and also 'grieved' when some of the Teleri were left behind. He was certainly acquainted with loss, and having visited Aman before, felt there was a promise of freedom from pain and trouble. and yes, the death of Miriel was the first for the Valar, and Aman-born elves, and came as a terrible shock.

Nienna speaks with great compassion when the Valar confer as to whether Finwe should be allowed to remarry. (HoME VolX p241-2) asking "Have ye known the weariness of Miriel or felt the bereavement of Finwe?" So I'd guess she has spoken to them both and offered comfort.

I'll write something about 'attachment' and the Feanor/Finwe bond later. Don't want to bore everybody.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 18, 2012 06:47
Bated breath, cirdaneth.
Hangman Helper program
Elanor_the_elf
Council Member
Posts: 287
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 18, 2012 09:39
I think Feanor is the kind of guy that couldn't stand to do nothing. I think that's why his hands always had to be busy making something.

From what I remember, he loved his father even after he remarried but didn't like his step-mother or his half brothers. I think that he didn't like the idea of marrying another after the loss of a first spouse. Maybe it's not an obsession with his father not loving him, but rather a feeling that it was wrong and that somehow the step mother had tricked Finwe.

Feanor strikes me as a very loyal and determined person. But, he's only loyal to those that he really cares about. I think his reasons for leaving Valinor were a mixture of revenge and the loss of the Silmarils. He couldn't have his father back, nor the trees...but retrieving the jewels would equal getting revenge by defeating Morgoth and taking them back. I think the jewels became the only remaining symbol of the past happiness...and thus his obsession.

I could go on but I'll avoiding writing a longer wall of text.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 22, 2012 06:08
While you've got all the books out cirdaneth
-How old was Feanor when his mother died
-When did he learn the reason for his mother's death
-Did he have any good reason for his feelings about his stepmother and brothers
-Could his father have felt any resentment toward him because of Miriel's death

that'll do for now
Hangman Helper program
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 22, 2012 02:52
1. There are some contradictions about Feanor's age when Miriel died, but the accepted version is that it was in his infancy.

2. He will have asked a lot of questions, and probably been given the reason quite young. If not, then when Melkor was freed he will have made sure he knew.

3. Some uneasiness is natural in step-families, but it may be that Melkor made him very aware that his brothers were the 'sister-sons' of Ingwe, King of the Vanyar, and his natural heirs. (an old English custom that Tolkien seems to favour)

4. I doubt if there was resentment from Finwe, as he gave up everything for Feanor and ultimately his life.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 23, 2012 05:17
Thanks cirdaneth.
I'm assuming a parallel psychology to humans, which is reasonable considering Tolkien's description of the lives of the Elves.
It seems doubtful that Feanor would have any concrete memory of his mother if she died when he was still a baby, and his upbringing would seem normal to him until he noticed that other children had mothers. If it was later it may have had a more profound effect on his psyche.
If he had learned of the reason for Miriel's death when still a young child it would have been highly traumatic. His guilt may have acted to harden his heart, and played a part in the rejection of his new family. It may also have tainted his relationship with Finwë.
The displeasure he felt about his father's remarriage then would be not so much from a strong emotional bond to his mother but more a position of principal, second-hand and intellectual. He was 'come to full stature' by then so, as you say cirdaneth, he may also have been resentful of his brothers' hereditary rights.
It could be said that he represents the domination of the mind over the heart. If so, what are we to make of the original quote? What does it mean that he loved his father more than anything else? What sort of love was it that is compared to his covetous, selfish love of the Silmarils?
I still think Feanor set out on a path of self-destruction, a long drawn-out suicide, but I'm not sure what turned him, what triggered it.
Hangman Helper program
Bartimaeus
Council Member
Posts: 65
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: March 31, 2012 05:19
Yes, Feanor's undoing was a mixture of grief, guilt and resentment. Because he was so fond of Finwe, he was upset and jealous of his half-brothers and (as you said before) buried himself in his work.

Apart from their hereditary rights, he was jealous of how close Fingolfin and Finarfin were to his father, and he probably felt, reasonably enough, that Finwe wasn't loyal enough to Miriel. Also, it's evident that he felt a little left out of things - when he comes upon his father and brothers in conference, he says, "In this as in everything else, my half-brothers are before me!" Finwe seems to have been well-meaning, but weak and a little tactless and inconsiderate. He was definitely incapable of handling such a situation and perhaps, with the best of intentions, he made Feanor feel worse. Though he was upset about Miriel's death, he moved on pretty quickly. He couldn't have been a very understanding father.

So Feanor reacted to loneliness and a feeling of negect in a fairly natural way. But though he felt resentful, he didn't lose his affection for his father - or else he wouldn't have been so jealous. When he buried himself in his work, it doesn't seem to have been out of detachment or cold-heartedness - he was trying to be happy in his own way, and seeking a sort of self-expression, since he couldn't find any sympathy in his family life. Like people write books to express things that don't find much sympathy in their immediate circle. Because his family wasn't congenial, he grew the more absorbed in his Silmarils - they were of his own creation, free from the inadequacies of human nature, and (he felt) wouldn't betray him. But I guess artistic expression isn't entirely a substitute for a happy life. It looks like he still missed Finwe, and longed to have his father back.
cirdaneth
Books Admin & Books Forum Moderator
Posts: 2069
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: May 03, 2012 05:04
I'm not so sure he wanted to belong, more that he wanted to possess and was jealous of any who had his father's love, save his mother. Is that what you mean by attachment?
Posession is really the 'bottom line' of attachment and Tolkien's work explores this repeatedly. Attachments to people, things, situations, and your own creations ... and whether those creationswere ever entirely ours in the first place. (i.e.the light within the Silmarils)
He was always a bit of a loner and when his father remarried Feanor went off on his own and buried himself in his work. Did he have much to do with Finwe after that?
When Feanor was banished for 12 years, Finwe chose to go into exile with him, and without other family, so they were very close in those final years. It was in Feanor's absence that Morgoth slew Finwe and took the jewels, and it was news of that deed that gave rise to the oath.
tarcolan
Movies Moderator and General Dogsbody
Posts: 6049
Send Message
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: May 05, 2012 06:21
cirdaneth said
Finwe chose to go into exile with him, and without other family
It was Finwe's choice, do you think Feanor would have asked him to come? Maybe, but I think he was too proud and stubborn. I think this was a gesture on Finwe's part to absolve his feelings of guilt, unfounded in my opinion.

Bartimaeus said
Though he was upset about Miriel's death, he moved on pretty quickly.
Quick maybe in Elven terms, but Feanor was grown up when Finwe remarried. How much attention did he need? If he really had loved his father he would have been happy for him. And
...since he couldn't find any sympathy in his family life
Did he even give it a chance? His idea of a family did not include a mother figure, except as an idealised image, a ghost. Perhaps Finwe should have remarried sooner, so that he would have had a real family life.

I think Feanor's worst characteristics were amplified by his spoilt upbringing, so we can't judge him or Finwe. The only really unforgivable act was to refuse Yavanna even one of the Silmarils. This was before the death of his father so was just sheer spite. If he had relented then, who knows how things would have turned out. The Valar may even have joined with the Noldor to defeat Melkor and retrieve them.

Is there any evidence that the marriage was political expediency, that Indis snared Finwe?
Hangman Helper program
Bartimaeus
Council Member
Posts: 65
Send Message
Avatar
Post Re: Feanor, his father, and the silmarils
on: May 12, 2012 08:35
Finwe probably meant to do the best for Feanor, but his actions were easily misundersood. And he did say that he wasn't satisfied with one son. He probably didn't mean that Feanor wasn't good enough for him, but to a young and lonely son it might have seemed like it. Perhaps Finwe didn't do anything wrong, and since he accompanied him into exile he was definitely fond of him; but there seems to have been a communication problem between them.

Perhaps he should have been happy for Finwe, but one can understand why he wasn't.

It was an ill-considered decision to refuse Yavanna, but again an understandable one. He was clearly starting to wonder if the Valar were to be trusted, and the Silmarils were dearer to him than nearly everything else. He was probably wrong to question them, but he felt that they had gone against him before. (Some of it was in the cause of justice, but he must have felt friendless and neglected.) He had lost his faith in them, and though he was wrong, perhaps he doesn't deserve to be unequivocally condemned.
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email