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starofdunedain
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Post Dwarvish
on: December 18, 2009 05:43
Since the dwarves kept their own language a secret where did they get their names? (Gimli, Thorin, Gloin, Nori etc.)From Sindarin? And are names like Gabilan (name for Great River), Gabilgathol (Belegost) actual dwarvish? Or did they use a different language when speaking of names and such?

[Edited on 19/12/2009 by starofdunedain]
El-Tazrín
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Post RE: Dwarvish
on: December 18, 2009 08:51
They had provate names in Khuzdul and then chose names in a Mannish tongue, i.e the tongue of Dale

Hope this helps = )
Elthir
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Post RE: Dwarvish
on: December 19, 2009 07:01
With respect to place-names specifically: Gimli noted the actual Dwarvish names of particular mountains, for instance, so it would appear that it was ok for certain place-names to be revealed.

And concerning the outer names: from the Appendices...

'The 'outer' or Mannish names of the Dwarves have been given Northern forms, but the letter-values are those described.'


It can also be noted that the names in Old Norse are intended to be translations -- although within the story these outer names were not secret, Tolkien has translated them for the book, lifting names from the Dvergatal for instance.

In other words, no one spoke Old Norse in Frodo's day, just as the Rohirrim did not actually speak Old English.
starofdunedain
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Post RE: Dwarvish
on: December 19, 2009 07:34
So would it be safe to assume that only their own names were in Mannish? (old norse) And that any place name is actual dwarvish?
Elthir
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Post RE: Dwarvish
on: December 19, 2009 09:42
Concerning place-names we could, of course, have names in other languages that generally refer to the same place, like (K.) Khazad-dûm, (W.) Phurunargian 'Dwarrowdelf' (S.) Moria...

I'm sure you know that! but anyway in Appendix F at least, it's noted: 'The still more northerly language of Dale is in this book seen only in the names of the Dwarves that came from that region and so used the language of the Men there, taking their outer names in that tongue.'

In other writings we appear to have Dwarves with actual Dwarvish names, like Azaghâl for instance, and at the moment I can't recall any explanation, if there is one, when considering what's said in The Lord of the Rings -- possibly something in Words, Phrases and Passages, or in Of Dwarves and Men, but I would have to check to refresh my memory.
Elthir
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Post RE: Dwarvish
on: December 19, 2009 10:13
I ran across this (so far), with respect to the secret names: '... they would not reveal any personal names to people of other kin,*...'

*'Only the personal names of individuals. The name of their race, and the names of their families, and of their mansions, they did not conceal.' JRRT, note 31

Of Dwarves And Men, The Peoples of Middle-Earth
cirdaneth
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on: September 29, 2015 05:07
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