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tarcolan
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Post Five kings
on: November 08, 2012 04:22
"...the crowns of the five kings..." says Saruman. Who are they?
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~nólemë~
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Post Re: Five kings
on: November 08, 2012 04:29
I thought it was seven kings - if you mean the passage in Voice of Saruman, that is. My guess is that he means the male Valar.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
Lord_Sauron
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Post Re: Five kings
on: November 08, 2012 09:52
~nólemë~ You are correct the qoute is something like this "Do you come for the keys of Orthanc or prehaps the tower of Barad dur itself Along with the rods of the five wizards and the crowns of the seven kings".

I to think the seven mean the male Vala, Manwe, Ulmo, Aule, Orome, Mandos, Lorien and Tulkas.

the five wizards or Istari are Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast,Alatar and Pallando. (if anyone didn't know)
tarcolan
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Post Re: Five kings
on: November 08, 2012 09:58
Oopsy. Slip of the brain there, seven it is. Were the Valar ever called kings anywhere else, and did they wear crowns? Perhaps it was just a figure of speech.
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Post Re: Five kings
on: November 09, 2012 03:47
The Valar took the shape of kings and queens, as the Silm. intro tells us, and they're probably called that somewhere else as well. The Valier are called Queens in the Silm., and Manwe at least is expressly called King of Arda there, so the reference to 'kings' in Saruman's speech seems pointing to the Valar rather unambiguously. Also, the mention of growth in stature in the same speech supports that interpretation. Quite likely of Saruman, consumed by his bitterness, to taunt Gandalf by implying he's trying to raise himself among the Valar.

I'd say they wore crowns - given that Manwe had a sceptre, a crown would be its logical complementation. But I can't recall a direct quote at the moment saying this expressly.
---------- Image "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit
Huin
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Post Re: Five kings
on: November 16, 2012 04:08
I realize after reading this thread that I just automatically assumed that the crowns of the seven kings had something to do with Númenor (thanks to the "seven stars and seven stones" thing); though which seven it would be and why I couldn't guess. I like nólemë's idea bout the Valar, too.
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