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Eusonia
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Post Catholic or Religious Ideas behind Tolkien's Works?
on: March 31, 2014 12:18
As a start, I am Christian (Church of England) so please refrain from posting criticizing comments. I am a big fan of C.S. Lewis as well as Tolkien who put lots of Christian ideas into his books (eg. Aslan becoming the Lamb). I have noticed a few seemingly related occurrences in Tolkien's works, especially in the creation of Middle Earth in The Silmarillion (Eru, The One and Melkor who rebelled against him and went into darkness). Also, Galadriel seems to appear as very similar to the Catholic Mary.
I was wondering whether there are other minor references to the author's faith in his work (bearing in mind he strongly disliked CS Lewis' "Childishly" religion based works. I was hoping perhaps someone could point out some others for me as it would greatly advance my enjoyment of the novels(I like to know as much as I can about the origins of author's ideas).
Thank you very much to all those who help me in advance,
Eusonia.
Please note: I am not considering his works as allegories.



[Edited on 03/31/2014 by Eusonia]
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Gandolorin
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on: March 31, 2014 12:51
One of my books about Tolkien is by Joseph Pearce, titled "Tolkien - Man and Myth - a literary life." My version is a (trade?) paperback © 1998, published by HarperCollinsPublishers.

Pearce takes Tolkien's Roman Catholic background into account for his analysis of Tolkien's writing (and as a quick check in Wikipedia shows, he is explicitly stated to be a Catholic author), which some other authors leave out. So this might be a useful book for you.

[Edited on 03/31/2014 by Gandolorin]
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cirdaneth
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on: April 01, 2014 07:35
Fear not, Eusonia! Nobody gets to post critical remarks about the faith/religion of other members. Meanwhile ... Tolkien's works are full of religious echoes and after 50 years of reading him I still discover more. Read through our thread on Tolkien and water and you'll see the kind of thing we discuss.

I feel that Tolkien's writing includes examination of the tenets of his Catholic faith. Placing it in an imaginary world allows him to examine principles for which he might have attracted censure from the Roman Catholic Church.
tarcolan
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on: April 01, 2014 11:29
There are lots of threads here in the Books Forum which discuss the themes in Tolkien's work, and you may want to read through this one - Tolkien's true religion
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LegolasXXXXX
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on: April 01, 2014 12:26
Tolkien was a very devout Catholic- his mother had brought him up in that religion and he was very close to his mother. When he wrote, his life experiences crept into his writing and his tales of Middle-Earth do seem to touch on some Biblical tales although he was very adamant about his works not being allegorical. As for examples, one that stands out to me is Gandalf's sacrifice to save the Fellowship, and later coming back to life. As Gandalf was a Maia, a servant of Illuvatar, it stands to reason that Illuvatar raised Gandalf back to life. Another example is the Noldor leaving the Undying Lands. When they leave they are forbidden to return, but eventually are offered redemption and allowed to return, but only those that were born in Middle-Earth with one exception- Galadriel. This could be an example of Adam and Eve, or the children of Israel in the wilderness. But Tolkien put a different light on it when he wrote his tales. Back to my comment of his life experiences working their way into his writing, he may not have known he was touching on those subjects. Or on the flip side, he may have known very well. I'm just sad he died before I was born, I would have loved to talk with him for just an hour.
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Lindarielwen
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on: April 08, 2014 06:46
LegolasXXXXX, take a trip to The Green Dragon. There is a topic called *What would you say to Tolkien if you met him?" I, for one, would like to know what you would talk to him about.
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cirdaneth
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on: April 11, 2014 02:08
Actually Tolkien's mother did not convert until he was eight, though she did attend a High Anglican church. Tolkien took to it with joy, not least because in his day the mass was still said in Latin, a language his mother was already teaching him. I think it gave him a spiritual security that comforted a child whose life had been confusing, and prepared him for worse to come.
LadyBeruthiel
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on: May 14, 2014 07:55
As a Catholic, I find a deep spirituality in Tolkien's work, so deep that he doesn't need to use "religious" language to express it. There are principles at work in all the characters, so that at any given time one of them may echo the self-sacrifice of Christ, the denial of Peter, the quiet faith of Mary. (Incidentally, I think the equivalent of Mary in LOTR is not Galadriel but Elbereth whom the elves worship.)Then there are the mysterious coincidences--the orcs dragging Merry and Pippin to Fangorn, Gollum tripping and falling into the Fires of Doom--that might not be coincidences after all. No one up and calls them "God" or "Providence," but the possibility is there. That JRRT doesn't hit you over the head with it means you are invited to have faith--or not. Freedom is important in these books.
That, I think, is the difference between Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. Tolkien's works are not allegorical, but Lewis's are. Allegory insists on one thing standing for another: Aslan=Christ, and no mistake. Allegory illustrates dogma, and the dogma is the important part. You enjoy it if you're already a believer, but it doesn't allow the same imaginative freedom as Tolkien's fictions.
parluggla
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on: May 14, 2014 10:41
And yet he left any mention of anything Christian out; instead, heaping on references to an imagined Northern Euro animism. I can sort of see LotR as a quasi-Crusader tale. Faramir, Boromir, Aragorn, Legolas, and others could easily be from a religious order of knights. Catholic mysticism and what mystical things Tolkien used are quite similar, but, again, Tolkien turned up the nature worship background volume.
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