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Finnr
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Post FotR - Gandalf and Balrog in Moria
on: April 29, 2014 12:21
Does Gandalf not know what a Balrog looks like or the power they have? Since they are both Maiar I would assume he would know but in The Fellowship of the Ring book 2 chapter 5 The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm when the Balrog first appears with the orcs Gandalf has no idea what it is until both Legolas and Gimli identify it.

"...and it perceived me and my spell. What it was I cannot guess, but I have never felt such a challenge. The counter-spell was terrible. It nearly broke me...Something dark as a cloud was blocking out all light inside..." - Gandalf

"...wailed Legolas 'A Balrog! A Balrog has come!' Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durins Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face. 'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand...'"

I am not sure how they can both know of the Balrog but Gandalf somehow forgets.
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Gandolorin
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on: April 29, 2014 02:38
Gandalf "only" feels the spell, the challenge by the Balrog, but does not see it in the first encounter. None of the others have any notion of what Gandalf was up against at that door. So Legolas and Gimli recognize the Balrog solely upon seeing it, but Gandalf realizes what he had been up against earlier.
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tarcolan
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on: April 29, 2014 04:17
Yes I'd agree with that, although it does read as though Gandalf needed Legolas and Gimli to tell him. I'm sure he knew full well that it was a Balrog. However I'm surprised he didn't make an intelligent guess as to what could have countermanded his spell. There were precious few things left in Middle Earth with that sort of power.
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Finnr
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on: April 30, 2014 11:55
that makes sense although it was known the Balrog dwelled there since it killed Durin VI, naming it Durins Bane, as well as Náin I which is why the Dwarves left Khazad-dûm to begin with and called it Moria, I thought. So the balrog was no secret and Gandalf even brings up the fact that its a dark path confirming that he knows of its history; "But there is another way, and not by the pass of Caradhras: the dark and secret way that we have spoken of." FotR book 2 chapter 4 when Gandalf was speaking with Aragorn alone in the snow storm. Plus Gandalf has been there before years previously when looking for Thráin son of Thrór. I guess it just doesn't make sense to me why he wouldn't make an educated guess like tarcolan said and assume it was the Balrog when the cloud blocked all light in the room, I can't think of many other creates of Middle-Earth that would do that.

[Edited on 04/30/2014 by Finnr]
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Gandolorin
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on: April 30, 2014 02:00
I have no doubt whatsoever that Gandalf knew full well that a Balrog was in Moria. But he did not expect to face it through the door to Balin's tomb room. Being so unprepared, he took an unexpectedly heavy "punch", to use boxing terminology, after which he was dazed and not able to think clearly enough. When his head had cleared enough after the Fellowship had crossed the bridge, he understood (what the others could not have in any way near the door) what he had faced before. And still managed to stop the Balrog at the bridge by breaking the latter - despite his weariness, which no one else of the Fellowship would have been remotely able to do.
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