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Varyalener
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Post Farewell to Lórien (Quenya translation)
on: March 13, 2015 05:12
Though i didn't finish the workbook yet, i'm feeling safe to do simple translations, and here is my first attempt: Galadriel's "Farewell to Lórien".

Farewell to Lórien

O Lórien! The Winter comes, the bare and leafless Day;
The leaves are falling in the stream, the River flows away.
O Lórien! Too long I have dwelt upon this Hither Shore
And in a fading crown have twined the golden Elanor.

– Galadriel


And here goes my Quenya translation:


Namárië, Lórien

A Lórien! Hrívë téna, i parna ar aulassë ré;
I lassi lantar i celumessë, i Sír síra vor.
A Lórien! Anandavë ambárien Sira Resta sinassë
Ar fírala ríenna ilíë i laurëa Elanar.

– Naltariello


Note:
I first thought of a literal translation of the title, which would be Namárië Lórien, but I'm not sure if Namárië may be used as a noun (and thus put into the dative case).
Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
dirk_math
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on: March 13, 2015 06:32
Very good but I hope you don't mind I give a few remarks:
- the verb ten- means 'arrive at a goal', tul- is better for a general 'come'
- to turn lassë in an adjective we would normally add -a: lassëa 'leafed' and aulassëa 'leafless'
- in the 2nd line it seems you mean that the leaves fall towards the stream? In that case an allative would be more appropriate
- vor means 'ever' (and that is of course fine) but if you want to express 'away' oa is better
- 'shore' is hresta with a silent h and Sira would normally be Siro a genitive 'the shore of the river'
- the perfect tense of lia- is rather awkward: i + lí + ië, and personally I would form it with an extra y: ilíyië (or you might use the verb wer-)
- but no matter which form you choose, it is still 'I have twined' so an extra -n ending would be needed (ilíen), otherwise Elanor would become the subject of twined
Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
Varyalener
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on: March 14, 2015 09:56
Thank you!! And of course I don't mind to be given remarks, no matter how many they are. This is the reason why I put this attempt of translation here, for it to get corrected.

  • You're right, tul- is a better option than ten-. In truth, I think tul- is the only one that would do for the intended meaning.

  • For "falling in the stream", in the 2nd line, you are right again. The allative is more adequate.

  • About vor, yes, I wanted to express "ever","on", because I believed "away" would have been used with that meaning. But think I was mistaken and it is better to replace vor by oa.

  • You're right, for "shore", the quenya word should be hresta.

  • About Siro, I think you got confused here(or maybe it was I? )... Siro Hresta does mean "Shore of the River", but I want to translate "Hither Shore", that would be Sira Hresta in quenya - sira is attested as "hither", according to Quettaparma: sir (2), also sira, adv. “hither” (primitive ¤sida, ¤sidā) ( VT49:18 ). But... only now I realized that sira meaning "hither" is an adverb, not an adjective (oh, my...). Should I replace it by har/harë "near"? (I will do this for now). Another point: though "this Hither Shore" seems to refer to the place called Nevrast in sindarin, I thought it was batter not to write it as a compound (Sirresta would be alright?), but with separate words (and captalized), just like in the original english version. Is that fine?

  • For "twined", yes, I will follow your advice and use ilíyië or ewérië. Think it is better to favour ewérië over ilíyië, for the later is still somewhat awkward... But if I'm not mistaken the subject of the verb is not "I", but rather "the golden Elanor". In a more common fashion, the last line could be written "and the golden Elanor have twined in a fading crown". So at least for now I will keep ewérië "have twined" (instead of ewérien "I have twined" ).

  • Concerning namárië, should I really not use it as a noun (as we can do in english with "farewell" ), so that the title should not be Namárië Lórien (with dative Lórien )?


    • Here goes the translation with modifications:


    Namárië, Lórien

    "A Lórien! Hrívë túla, i parna ar aulassëa ré;
    I lassi lantar i celumenna, i Sír síra oa.
    A Lórien! Anandavë ambárien Harë Hresta sinassë
    Ar fírala ríenna ewérië i laurëa Elanar."

    – Naltariello

    [Edited on 03/15/2015 by Varyalener]
    Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
    dirk_math
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    on: March 14, 2015 05:44
    The compound Sirresta would be ok as the silent h disappears in compounds.
    I didn't know the word sir could also mean 'hither', and for 'nearer' amna is certainly an adjective (I always use har(ë) in an adverbial meaning).

    For 'farewell': márienna is certainly a noun, but it is rather unfamiliar to most Quenya users. So I would also stay with namárië.
    If you really want a dative it would be Lórienen. But here maybe your title might be better as it is a kind of vocative (in Quenya this case always has the same form as the nominative) and this would make the title into an expression 'O Lórien farewell to thee'.

    [Edited on 03/15/2015 by dirk_math]
    Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
    Varyalener
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    on: March 15, 2015 10:28
    Yes, your're right, har(ë) is an adverb (again, my lack of attention when lookin on the wordlist), as well as sir(a). So it would make no difference to use one or the other. I believe both are wrong, since "hither" is an adjective (unless adverbs may be used as adjectives in quenya, but I don't think so). Thus it looks like amna is the only word that could be used (and by the way, would that compound be Amnaresta rather than Sirresta?).

    About the title, I didn't express myself correctly at first (my fault). I meant Lórien as a dative form of Lórien, that is of course a wrong dative form (the correct one is Lórienen, as you pointed). So, for the title, I mean it to be Namárië Lórienen, with namárië being used as a noun (just like "farewell" – as the english title reads "Farewell to..." ). But I'm not sure if this is ok, because, though "farewell" can be both an interjection ("Farewell!" ) and a noun, I don't know if the same goes for a quenya interjection like Namárië! (it is only attested as an interjection, but could it also be used as a noun?) That's why I chose Namárië, Lórien! "Farewell, Lórien!" for the title, but I would rather prefer (if it is possible) Namárië Lórienen "Farewell to Lórien" (for now, the later will be my choice).


    Below is the translation with the new changes:



    Namárië Lórienen

    "A Lórien! Hrívë túla, i parna ar aulassëa ré;
    I lassi lantar i celumenna, i Sír síra oa.
    A Lórien! Anandavë ambárien Amna Hresta sinassë
    Ar fírala ríenna ewérië i laurëa Elanar."


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have made a translation of the Song of Gil-galad, too. I will post it for check once the translation of Farewell to Lórien is perfect.

    [Edited on 03/16/2015 by Varyalener]
    Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
    Tyrhael
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    on: March 15, 2015 01:12
    If the locative is Lóriendesse in RGEO, does that mean it's stem ND- and that the dative would be *Lórienden? I haven't quite figured that out; any thoughts?
    dirk_math
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    on: March 15, 2015 04:21
    Yes, you're right Lórienden is very likely the correct dative.
    Yassë engë lómë, anarties calali.
    Varyalener
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    on: March 16, 2015 12:34
    So I think the following is the final version (tell me if there are still any remarks):


    Namárië Lórienden

    "A Lórien! Hrívë túla, i parna ar aulassëa ré;
    I lassi lantar i celumenna, i Sír síra oa.
    A Lórien! Anandavë ambárien Amna Hresta sinassë
    Ar fírala ríenna ewérië i laurëa Elanar."

    [Edited on 03/16/2015 by Varyalener]
    Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
    Varyalener
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    on: March 19, 2015 11:57
    Thank you again for your help! I appreciated it very much.
    Lindanen lassis, laurië lassis. Ar tás altaner laurië lassi.
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