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Ardeciel
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Post Home made poetry translation check
on: March 17, 2015 03:10
Hello everybody !

I'm a composer and I've been working on a new song lately. As it is about dreams and imaginary worlds I though it would be very nice to put some Quenya lyrics in.

So I started to learn quenya (by the way thank you for that wonderful workbook, it has been very helpful ) and after some practicing, I translated my lyrics.

Could you please have a look at the result and give me advices or correct me ?

To be precise, it is a french poem (written by myself) that I translated directly in quenya.

Here it is (juste in case) :


La peur est ténèbre,
La musique est lumière,
Et le temps se suspend.

Danse comme si tu mourrais demain,
Souris à en changer le monde,
Et tout disparaît.


Here is the english translation :


Fear is darkness,
Music is light,
And time holds on.

Dance as if you were to die tomorrow,
Smile so brightly that the world changes,
And everything disappear.


And the quenya translation :


i-caurë na mornië,
i-lindalë na laurë,
ar i-lumë hauta.

a liltalyë ve firuvalyë enwa,
a raitalyë nai vistuvalyë Eä,
ar Ilu vanya.


Many thanks by advance !

Ardeciel

[Edited on 03/17/2015 by Ardeciel]
Elhath
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on: March 17, 2015 03:45
ná ( "is" ) has a long vowel. So does lúmë "time".

In the imperative, the long personal endings are not necessary; they have also never been seen appended to the verb in the imperative mood (only twice appended to the imperative particle á : alyë anta *"give thou!", aly' eterúna "deliver thou!" — yet note that elsewhere in VT43 the pronominal ending thus affixed indicates the object of the action, not the subject!).

If Tolkien's "so that X would/might do Y" ( = 'in order to') construction from Vinyar Tengwar 14/27 were to be incorporated, the penultimate line would become a raita (ta calimávë,) i vistanielyë Eä [Eä vs. i Ambar] — though as of now I'd say the future tense (with a preceding i or yanen) seems fine also.

[Edited on 03/18/2015 by Elhath]
LotR-era Sindarin subject pronouns (with verbs) ❖ On translating "until" ❖ Old /-ch/ of /man agorech/ discussed
Ardeciel
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on: March 17, 2015 08:24
So, if I put your corrections, my translation becomes :


i-caurë ná mornië,
i-lindalë ná laurë,
ar i-lúmë hauta.

á lilta ve firuvalyë enwa,
á raita nai i vistuvalyë Eä,
ar Ilu vanya.


Is that right ?

I also have some questions about your remarks.
What form vistanielyë represent for the verb vista ? I've been searching but...
And could your please explain me the role of the particle "i" and how to chose where to put it in the sentence ? I'm also wondering about the difference with "yanen".

Anyway, thank you so much

Regards,

Ardeciel
Elhath
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on: March 18, 2015 06:05
Ardeciel said:So, if I put your corrections, my translation becomes :


i-caurë ná mornië,
i-lindalë ná laurë,
ar i-lúmë hauta.

á lilta ve firuvalyë enwa,
á raita nai i vistuvalyë Eä,
ar Ilu vanya.


Is that right ?

Use i or yanen or a(r) nai, not nai or "nai i".

I'd rather translate 'the world' with (i) Ambar, since that is less ambitious than Eä (which means all that exists, aka the entire Universe..).


What form vistanielyë represent for the verb vista ? I've been searching but...

We don't know what Tolkien called the -nië mood (modus) of the verb. I call it 'eventive', since it resembles the apparently assimilated suffix in ullier (Sauron Defeated p. 247/310). Externally it also looks like an "extension" of the past tense suffix, much like the Finnish conditional mood suffix looks compared to the Finnish past tense suffix.

Here is a link to the fragment from VT14 & VT27.


And could your please explain me the role of the particle "i" and how to chose where to put it in the sentence ?

This i is the Quenya version of the English conjunction "that" (= Spanish que). As I said, it should come right before the verb vista-.


I'm also wondering about the difference with "yanen"

Yanen is the relative stem ya- + instrumental case ending, giving another semantically sensible form which fits in between the two thoughts (about smiling and changing the world) — compare tanen, tánen "in that way, therefore" (VT49:11).

[Edited on 03/20/2015 by Elhath]
LotR-era Sindarin subject pronouns (with verbs) ❖ On translating "until" ❖ Old /-ch/ of /man agorech/ discussed
Ardeciel
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on: March 18, 2015 06:45
Okay I get it !

I'll keep Eä instead of Ambar, because the song is actually about changing the universe, and not only the world. But I get the difference
As I'm not perfectly sure to understand the -nië modus, I'll stay on the future tense. I prefer to sing things I understand

So, with your precious help, my quenya lyrics becomes :


i-caurë ná mornië,
i-lindalë ná laurë,
ar i-lúmë hauta.

á lilta ve firuvalyë enwa,
á raita i vistuvalyë Eä,
ar Ilu vanya.


I think it is the closest translation of my french lyrics I can get.

Again, thank you very much for your time and for you explanation.

Regards,

Ardeciel
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