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GreenhillFox
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Post The White Tree and the marriage of Aragorn
on: February 15, 2018 11:11
'[...] I am a mortal man, and though being what I am and of the race of the West unmingled, I shall have life far longer than other men, yet that is but a little while; and when those who are now in the wombs of women are born and have grown old, I too shall grow old. And who then shall govern Gondor and those who look to this City as to their queen, if my desire be not granted? The Tree in the Court of the Fountain is still withered and barren. When shall I see a sign that it will ever be otherwise?’

I wonder if anyone understands Aragorn's perception of a relationship between his founding of a dynasty with Arwen and the destiny of the White Tree. Aragorn is convinced of this, since after the planting of the newfound sapling:

‘The sign has been given,’ said Aragorn, ‘and the day is not far off.’ And he set watchmen upon the walls.

I understand the high 'bloodline' (yeah well, sort of speaking) of the White Tree, but what seems to make this a conditio sine qua non for the arrival of Arwen and their marriage?

Thanks for any suggestions!
'There’s something mighty queer behind this.'
Gandolorin
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on: February 16, 2018 02:44
Hm. On the same page (in my 2002 HarperCollins continuously paginated three-volume hardcover, the one with illustrations by Alan Lee), Aragorn states “… [the sapling] is not itself yet seven years old.” So it must have sprouted in TA 3012 – nothing remarkable about this years as per Appendix B. Gandalf then points out that the seed must have lain dormant for a long time. As per Appendix B, the previous White Tree died in TA 2852, the same year that Belecthor II, great-great-great-grandfather of Denethor II, died (though in Appendix A his year of death is given as 2872???). So the seed must have lain dormant for at least 160 years.

Personally, I don’t believe that replacement of the White Tree which died in 2852 was sine qua non, as you put it. I’d guess that without Aragorn (with tons of help) having achieved the downfall of Sauron, and the reunification of the two Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor (for which some organizational, not to say bureaucratic, efforts still lay in at least the near future – say until Barliman Butterbur actually believed that “Strider” was the new King ), there would have been nobody to search for and find the sapling, and thus plant it as a replacement of the dead tree. Sauron having been defeated, Aragorn was meant to find the sapling, and his worries about the White Tree’s lineage (far older than his own) being continued was just a bit of superstition that even people as high in lineage as he was were prone to.
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Dolwen
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on: February 17, 2018 02:09
It's been a while since I've read the parts pertaining to this but it was always my understanding that the significance of the tree to Aragorn was because when the last tree died during the reign of the stewards it was left standing until "the King returns" because they couldn't find a sapling. So when he found the sapling it was a symbol (like the saying of Ioreth) that he was in fact the rightful king. How that ties in with Arwen can be found in Appendix A, Tale of Arwen and Aragorn. Elrond upon discovering Aragorn's love for Arwen told him that she was of a lineage greater and high above him and that her choice in him would also mean a choice of mortality and staying behind when he left Middle-earth and for those reasons he would not allow the union for anyone less than King of both Arnor and Gondor.
'When Elrond learned the choice of his daughter, he was silent, though his heart was grieved and found the doom long feared none the easier to endure. But when Aragorn came again to Rivendell he called him to him, and he said:

'"My son, years come when hope will fade, and beyond them little is clear to me. And now a shadow lies between us. Maybe, it has been appointed so, that by my loss the kingship of Men may be restored. Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undómiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor. To me then even our victory can bring only sorrow and parting - but to you hope of joy for a while. For a while. Alas, my son! I fear that to Arwen the Doom of Men may seem hard at the ending."


So when a sapling was actually found and by Aragorn and was planted and grew strong and fast it was as a confirmation that he was in fact the rightful king and therefore, Elrond's condition was met and he would allow the marriage.
Gandolorin
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on: February 21, 2018 04:23
First, having just finished Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull’s 2005 “LoTR Reader’s Companion”, I am now informed that my 2002 edition of LoTR is out of date. Appendix A is correct and Appendix B incorrect in giving the death of Belecthor II (Ruling Steward) of Gondor and the White Tree in 2872 (I am not going to buy a newer edition). But that still means that the seed of the White Tree that Aragorn finds as a sapling in an ancient hallow on the slopes of Mount Mindolluin had lain dormant for at least 140 years (probably more). That this seed arrived at this hallow at least 59 years before Aragorn’s birth. The pine trees on our lawn were producing cones like mad during the horrific drought summer of 2015 (which millions of brain-dead morons here in Germany seem to expect as a “normal” summer by now and complain when we have a statistically normal summer). Belecthor’s death in the same year was a coincidence.

Aragorn’s victory (as I stated above, with tons of help) did not cause the sapling to be there. The sapling was there because the previous White Tree had a stress situation still common in our world and sent seeds all over the place on a massive scale. At best, the sapling was there in case an heir of Isildur – or more to the point Elendil – had come into his inheritance, which by necessity could only be effected by the downfall of Sauron, and was able to search for a sapling (and aided by the Ainu – specifically Maia – Gandalf) managed to find it, and replant it in the place of the older dead tree. Aragorn’s coming into his inheritance as King of both Arnor and Gondor by this victory was what mattered. That the sapling bloomed was only a placebo to pacify a superstition that even someone like Aragorn (or perhaps even JRRT himself?) was not able to free himself from.

[Edited on 02/21/2018 by Gandolorin]
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