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Trignifty
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Post 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 01, 2003 05:05
Is there any symbolism in Gandalf’s fireworks? Are they simply for entertainment or are they a look into the future of more powerful developments such as ammunition for guns, cannons and other people killing machinery, or fuel for the industry that changed the landscape of Tolkien’s real world?



[Edited on 5/2/2003 by Trignifty]

[Edited on 3/9/2003 by Figwit]

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by Figwit]
Veaglarwen
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 01, 2003 09:57
As I consider this question, I've been weighing all the possibilities. I've finally arrived! Thought I'd let you know. I think the fireworks are symbolic. It has been so long since Gandalf has been back to the shire...it symbolizes not only the fact that it was a great thing for him to be there, but also it shows what he's capable of. He's not an ordinary person. He's a Wizard...no ordinary people can create such magic, such excitement.
Figwit
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 01, 2003 11:31
well, it's an interesting question

I have to agree to agree with Veaglarwen that they're mainly a tool to establish two things: that Gandalf is a wizard and what that wizardy would mean to Hobbits

see, to us fireworks are simply a technology, but to the Hobbits it's a kind of magic. I think this is Tolkien's way of warning us: you may think that there's a lot of 'magic' in what's about to follow, but actually, it's just 'advanced technology'

but my guess is a good as any
Elenisil
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 02, 2003 02:27
I agree with the magical meaning of the fireworks. I can´t help thinking that the way he describes the light, the sparks and the colours links them to the origins of Middle-Earth... (ok, I won´t start on Silmarillion now )

When I look into Gandalf´s "magic" more carefully, it comes down to enchantments, wisdom, co-existence with the evironment and the beings which inhabit it. It´s unavoidable (for me) to compare it to Wicca (the little I know about it, that is). On the other hand, the fireworks represent the "popular" interpretation of magic of that time (the rabbit in the top-hat today?).

I don´t think that Tolkien thought of technology (in that way) while writing, though. I think he wanted to keep it mytical and technology would destroy the world he created so vividly, as tech is destroyng ours. There was war upon the world at that time, a war which catastrofic outcome was directly caused by developments in tech.
k
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 02, 2003 06:15
i suppose they could be symbolic ... but im not sure about that.....

thinking about it the fireworks is one of the things that demonstrates a difference between saruman (another wizard) and gandalf, umm ok this is really hard to do without talking about future events. but gandalf uses gunpowder for fun, to bring happiness and a sense of wonder saruman... i couldnt imainge doing to the same- one way of highlighting the wizards' differnces i guess.

the book is written form a hobbit point of veiw for most of the time and this bit just shows a great deal about hobbits and thier view of wizards, which becomes important later. so no i dont think the fireworks are symbolic of anything more that they allow the reader to see the hobbits view of wizards and highlight the differnces in the wizards use of resouces... of course i could be well off track i dont read much into things
Firstbourne
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 02, 2003 08:11
so no i dont think the fireworks are symbolic of anything more that they allow the reader to see the hobbits view of wizards and highlight the differnces in the wizards use of resouces... of course i could be well off track i dont read much into things


I agree with that. I can't exactly put into words what I am about to say, so please forgive me. I believe that they were their to show how the hobbits looked up to the wizard, Gandalf, and how wizards can do amazing things. Much like how a young child has the bewilderment of viewing fireworks.

I don't know, you can't really go off what I say. I am no expert, just a silly little child that is putting out a thought.
LadyAdaneth
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 02, 2003 10:48
Gandalf was the custodian of the ring of Fire, was he not? I always thought that his skill with fireworks, and his delight in blowing fancy smoke-rings, was designed to show both his sense of humour and his affection for his fellow beings, in using his hidden powers in a down-to-earth way, for enjoyment and entertainment. In the same way that the rings of the Dwarves encouraged skills in metal and stone-working, Gandalf's fiery ring (must look up name but later!) gave him abilities in practical applications. Whilst it gave him the strength to defeat the Balrog, this affinity with fire was turned to other fun uses in more peaceful times.

Any more ideas anyone?
LadyAdaneth
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 02, 2003 11:04
Sorry! Just read the instructions (duh - yes I know I do the same with electrical stuff) and realised my last comment is based too much on later chapters. *hangs head in shame* I promise to stick to the assignment next time.....
Eowyn_Touched-By-Frost
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 02, 2003 08:56
I think that the fireworks were used by Gandalf as a disguise; so the Hobbirs would think that's all that Wizards do, make fireworks and blow smoke-rings; and so they would not know that Wizards did important things like save Middle-Earth and be 'great movers of deeds'. The Hobbits were supposed to be sheltered, after all.
Ainulindale
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 03, 2003 01:40
Gandalf's flamboyant fireworks could be a cover-up for who he actually is, his powers spread far beyond what was seen by any other excpet maybe the White Council, and he may have wanted to keep up that image of a 'conjurer' or 'performer' to hide who he really is.

Fireworks could be a sort of... prelude, for lack of better words. A prelude before his battle with the Balrog, where this time flame overcomes him, which he before considered child's play.

It could have something to do with his ring Narya.... Ack, Trignifty am I allowed to refer to the stuff about Narya.....?
Trignifty
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 03, 2003 11:33
At this point...I'd rather you didn't. Wait for folks to get a little further into the book to talk about Narya. Actually..it's not really discussed in detail in LotR, so if you can give a detailed explanation of what it is to all the folks at home, you can talk about it.
McDLT
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 04, 2003 05:29
I think the Fireworks was added as fluff. To remind us of the Hobbit. Fun and easy going. And how much they add to a celebration.

It does show some of Gandalf's character - fun-loving, playful side.

Not really symbollic of anything. But boy do I love 'em!

Just my thoughts.
Alaere_Dûnhilien
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 04, 2003 09:13
You know, I always thought that the Shire was some kind of a 'vacation' for Gandalf, a place to retire to when he wanted to relax. That could be why he always is so playful there. The Hobbits were a secluded Race, not minding anything that happened outside the Shire, and I think that that is what attracts Gandalf there: their love for simple things. He himself can enjoy the more simple, peaceful things of life there.
What K says about the differences between the wizards: very interesting indeed! Never looked at it that way. I've learned something new already lol!
If the fireworks are symbolic, they could also represent the fact that technology isn't that bad in itself, but that it depends on the way you use it. If you use it in a responsible way, and for good purposes, technology can be a good thing. Unfortunately, it seems to be in the nature of Men to be easily corrupted...

Alaere
Aowyn
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 05, 2003 08:02
Being in the fireworks business,in my view, gave Gandalf a kind of "legitimate" reason to enter the Shire and check up on what Bilbo and Frodo were up to..."strangers" didn't come in often, and this gave him the excuse he needed to visit fairly regularly.
Naurlas
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 06, 2003 04:17
I'll take a stab at the history of the one of the 3 elven rings. The three elven rings were given into the keeping of Galadriel, Gil-Galad and Cirdan the shipwright, his ring was "Narya" - the ring of fire or the Red ring whose chief power was to inspire courage, love and resolutness in all hearts.

Cirdan met Gandalf in the Grey Havens and this is the quote taken directly from Tolkien in the "Unfinished Tales"..."and last came one who seemed the least, less tall that the others and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad. But Cirdan from thier first meeting saw in Gandalf the greatest spirit and the wisest (of all the wizards) and gave to him Narya and said "For great labors and perils lie before you, and lest your task prove too great and wearisome, take this ring for your aid and comfort. I deem that in days ere long to come it should be in nobler hands than mine, that may wield it for the kindling of all hearts to courage".

I hope this helps and it havn't made anything more confusing...:blush:
heiwen
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 06, 2003 06:53
better late than never....
I think that Gandalf liked the easyness in the sire and for him it was really a place to relax....at least in the beginning.
He is a servant of the secret fire....the spiritial power that is in the will of Ilúvatar and in the creating of the earth....
I think Gandalf is showing some beauty of the it by creating with his fireworks trees and butterflys and so on. And I think he just had fun burning the fireworks....for he knew what was awaiting him....and Bilbo...and in the end Frodo.


Hope this makes sense to anyone....english is not my native:blush:
Thuriniel
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 07, 2003 02:09
We just started and I'm already behind on the reading, but, hey, here are my comments about the fireworks. Better late than never !

I think that the fireworks and the presence of Gandalf help to emphasize that the Hobbits live in a very closed community, basically oblivious to the outside world, as it is illustrated on this passage:

"the old man was Gandalf the Wizard, whose fame in the Shire was due mainly to his skill with fires, smokes, and lights. His real business was far more difficult and dangerous, but the Shire-folk knew nothing about it. To them he was just one of the 'attractions' at the Party." (pg. 33)

Gandalf was well known by Elves and Men, yet to the Hobbits he was just a "magician", a creator of illusions, which shows the innocent/childlike quality of hobbits, and the simplicity of their lives. Then again it helps to separate both Bilbo and Frodo from the rest of the hobbits, since they know some of Gandalf's "real business."

I'll leave it at that, I won't bore you anymore !
McDLT
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 07, 2003 02:49
Jazz said:
Gandalf was well known by Elves and Men, yet to the Hobbits he was just a "magician", a creator of illusions, which shows the innocent/childlike quality of hobbits, and the simplicity of their lives.


That comment got me thinking. Maybe Gandalf didn't want the hobbits to know of his other, more dangerous business. He did a few hobbits (Bilbo & Frodo), but only showed the other hobbits his fun and relaxed side.

Well there is my defense of Hobbits, what little it may be.

Just my thoughts.
Eregwen_legolaslove
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: May 08, 2003 05:59
(Oi I read the assignments then forget to post? I don't think I'm all here sometimes...)

Gandalf's fireworks always seemed to me to be a way of showing his power in a grand and yet simple way. Although technology is great, technology has yet to see a way to make the advanced patterns and shapes Gandalf displayed in his fireworks. If indeed the fireworks were simply technology, then the technology of Middle Earth is both forward and backward of what would've been modern times in Tolkien's day. It might simply be that Tolkien liked fireworks and chose to elaborate on a good thing.

I agree with Alaere in that technology is basically a good thing when used for the right purposes. Take medicine for example. Small pox used to be a disease right up with the black plague. Now it's all but history thanks to technology. It all depends on the use of it... But I'm rambling now... No more bunny trails
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: December 18, 2004 09:45
(*waves just incase anyone's going to read this* I'm rereading LotR, so I might as well reply to the threads I didn't last time.)

I agree that Gandalf's fireworks mainly establish that he is a wizard and establish what this seems like to hobbits. The fireworks also set the stage very well for the rest of the book. It shows the peaceful atmosphere of the Shire while letting the reader know that there's a lot more out there, even if it doesn't effect hobbits much.

The fact that gunpowder or some explosive must be used to make the fireworks, when no guns or explosives seem to be present in Middle-earth, shows that - at that point at least - some people have the capacity to create them, but no one has yet. Either Middle-earth's inhabitants are very peaceful or technology isn't advanced enough for all but a few to make explosives.
Figwit
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: December 18, 2004 10:11
Or, third option, they do know it but don't see the use of it? You know, LadyE, I think I'll be reading along with you
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party (Symbolism in Fireworks)
on: December 21, 2004 01:06
That sort of follows my train of thought; I'll go with that . Fireworks seem to not be altogether unknown (though Hobbits probably wouldn't know if they were widely used) so that would probably rule out both of my ideas.
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