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Trignifty
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Post 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: May 01, 2003 05:49
What are some parallels between Hamfast and Samwise Gamgee and Bilbo and Frodo Baggins? How are the pairs alike and how are they different?

What sort of community is Hobbiton? From this chapter, can you tell what sort of values Hobbits seem to have and/or find important?

In what sense does Tolkien's writing style fit (or not fit) the content of the chapter (the depiction of Hobbiton, the party and Bilbo's leaving)?

How does Tolkien depict the main characters: Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gandalf?

** Courtesy of Figwit


[Edited on 3/9/2003 by Figwit]

[Edited on 28/1/2004 by Figwit]
Eowyn_Touched-By-Frost
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: May 03, 2003 01:33
Some paralells I noticed between Bilbo and Frodo are that they are both different than the average Hobbit. They were learned, and seemed smarter and wiser. They both knew and understood Gandalf, where as most Hobbits feared him.
I think they are different in the fact that Frodo seemed a little deeper than Bilbo; you can't always see what Frodo was thinking or feeling from 'just looking at him' in the way he is described. Where as Bilbo seemed to be a little more uncovered, I could always tell what he was about to do, or what he was thinking.
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I find Sam Gamgee and the Gaffer different in a few ways. Sam seems braver. He was willing to try new things, and he liked (at least th idea of) adventure; things his father feared. Also, Sam was able to read and write, something the Gaffer thought a waste of time. Their values were different, too. Sam valued friendships, but his father had more of the same values as other hobbits: food, drink, peace and quiet, things he was used to.
They were simmilar because they both loved gardening, raising things, good tilled earth and the pleasure of a lovely garden.
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I find Bilbo and Frodo very simillar to each other, and Samwise and Hamfast very different from each other.

I think Hobbiton is a very close-knit community. Everyone is on freindly terms with (almost) everyone else, they all know each other, they all enjoy the same pastimes, etc. In Hobbiton there are the local 'hangouts', such as the Green Dragon and the Ivy Bush inns, where everyone gets together and talks. They all seem to enjoy talking, and family stories/heritage.
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From this chapter I saw a few of the things Hobbits value. I think that the Hobbits find normalness important. Look at what they all thought of Bilbo because he was a little (ok, a lot) different from most. Anyone slightly different they called queer. They also seem to value things in life that we normaly overlook, like food and drink, peace and quiet, and togetherness.
Alaere_Dûnhilien
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: May 05, 2003 06:30
The impression I get of Hobbiton is the 'small village attitude': everyone is on (more or less) friendly terms with one another -as Eowyn-tb-Frost said already- but it seems to result in 'nosiness' many times. Since Hobbits do not interfere with the Outside world, I guess they have nothing else to talk about than eachother lol! I found out that Hobbits ARE curious after all, it seems like they all want to know everything about one another. The conversation of the Gaffer with Sandyman seems typical in that point of view: the way they are discussing Bilbo's and Frodo's family (and the legendary gold hidden in Bilbo's tunnels ).
It is also at that point that another similarity between the Gaffer and Sam strucked me: both of them are always ready to defend their master against evil speakers; they are loyal to, and love their master.
One difference between Frodo and Bilbo would be that Bilbo definitely is the more adventurous of the two, as Bilbo himself tells Gandalf (If I asked him, he would come with me, but in his heart, Frodo is still in love with the Shire: the fields, the little rivers....).
In general, it is obvious that Hobbits are simple beings, they enjoy the simpler things of life: friendship, good manners, food and drinks, smoking , normalness, family, I think also self-reliancy, and parties! They are curious to a certain point, merry and optimistic (well, most of them), goodhearted, and polite.

Alaere
Eowyn_Touched-By-Frost
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: May 09, 2003 10:09
It is also at that point that another similarity between the Gaffer and Sam strucked me: both of them are always ready to defend their master against evil speakers; they are loyal to, and love their master.

I never even thought of that answer! But your right, Sam was always ready to defend Frodo, and the Gaffer would defend Bilbo. Not many answers to the questions. I wonder if anyone read the assignment?

I didn't mention before. I think Tolkein's writing style fits the chapter well. It gives a very descriptive view of the Hobbits and their culture, something most authors don't bother with. It could've taken a whole shapter to describe everything, but the words Tolkein used did it in little space. The style seemed to give an old, rustic feel; in my oppinion perfect for Hobbits and the Shire.
diendrial
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: October 12, 2003 07:20
I love Tolkein's style. He makes reading fun. He writes as though he himself is a wee folk right in the middle of Hobbiton! His writing is both amusing and lyrical, with a kind of bounce to it that dances from sentence to sentence, thought to thought. He takes you inside his characters and lets them know what they are thinking. As far as how he depicts the main characters: he lets us know that there is more to Bilbo Baggins than what meets the eye. He lets us know there is a history behind him that is both mysterious and dangerous and that Bilbo is set on resolving something that was laid on his heart during his past adventure. He lets us see an edgyness in Bilbo, both a distaste for the simple life and a yearning for something more.
With Frodo he shows us a love for his comrades and his home. He portrays a young man that knows he has a task ahead of him, but means to procrastinate as long as possible, and is actually reluctant to begin this task. Frodo is tolerant of the hobbits that are anxious to get their booty of Bags Inn, almost amused at their greed rather than irritated as Bilbo had been. Frodo is patient and quiet in temperment, being quite happy to give up his wealth for time spent with his friends.
Gandalf is portrayed in these first chapters as not quite as wise as one would expect a wizard...not sure to make a decision on what action to take. He is somewhat mysterious.
As mentioned here, Sam is a true friend and Tolkien makes that clear in the very beginning.

If you don't mind, its really late but I will love to answer more of these questions tomorrow.

diendrial
Figwit
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: October 12, 2003 10:32
Frodo is tolerant of the hobbits that are anxious to get their booty of Bags Inn, almost amused at their greed rather than irritated as Bilbo had been. ~diendrial


Well, diendrial, that's a very good point. The difference between Bilbo who really hates the Sacksville-Bagginses, and Frodo who is more like an amused bystander, mocking their greed... Perhaps Bilbo's keeping the Ring for all that time has made him less generous on the whole, or more aware of greed?

I am certainly looking forward to reading more of your opinions!
diendrial
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: October 13, 2003 07:04
Well, diendrial, that's a very good point. The difference between Bilbo who really hates the Sacksville-Bagginses, and Frodo who is more like an amused bystander, mocking their greed... Perhaps Bilbo's keeping the Ring for all that time has made him less generous on the whole, or more aware of greed?


You know, I wish my daughter would return my book "The Hobbit" because I'm sure there are some answers in it that I've been looking for. I am curious to know how Bilbo thought of his relatives before he set out on his very first journey...or if it even says. It was so long ago that I read it. But I remember that Bilbo had somewhat of an attitude even before he found the ring...an attitude much like his relatives...kind of grumpy and greedy at times though big hearted at other times. I'm sure the ring had its effect on him of course. In fact, it seems that the more a heart is bent towards evil, the quicker and harder the power of the ring can destroy it. Which would explain the devastating power it had on Gollum...who, on his own, murdered someone -before he even had possession of the ring. On the other hand, our heros whos hearts are less corrupted on their own are much stronger against its power. I guess that's a pretty obvious observation, but one worth mentioning.

That brings me to one of the other questions in this thread:What sort of community is Hobbiton? From this chapter, can you tell what sort of values Hobbits seem to have and/or find important?

The community of Hobbiton it seems is a happy community. Tolkien doesn't say they are without fault and are blissfully happy...but they are simple. Their squabbles are petty and almost of a comical nature. They love the simple life but they also love gossip. They love talking about the mystery behind Bilbo and his wealth...it is a great source of amusement for them kind of like everyone going to see the same movie and talking about it for ages after! (where did I get an idea like that?!) They are naive but only because they prefer to be and in a sense use their ignorance as a candy coating...pretending that what they don't know won't hurt them. Some of them (Hobbits) are more intelligent than others and Frodo certainly seems to have a little more intelligence than most. But that could be because of all the hobbits, tho we don't know all their stories, Frodo is one who has seen tragedy and despair...it was his parents that died in a boating accident and he was orphaned. This alone could have been the cause of Frodo's seriousness and detachment from the other hobbits...in fact, I think the reason Frodo is so good-natured about the Sacksville-Bagginses greed is because he can see them for who they are...he responds to them rather than reacts to them. He has had time to mature. Possibly this is an end result of his sorrow and having to adjust to a new life with Bilbo. Tragedy does promote growth.

Just a thought.
Thanks for reading Figwit. I enjoy your posts also.

[Edited on 10/04/03 by diendrial]

[Edited on 10/04/03 by diendrial]

[Edited on 10/04/03 by diendrial]
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: 1.I. A Long-expected Party
on: December 21, 2004 01:14
What are some parallels between Hamfast and Samwise Gamgee and Bilbo and Frodo Baggins? How are the pairs alike and how are they different?
Frodo and Bilbo seem to be similar to each other but different from the average Hobbit. (I mostly agree with what's above so I'm not going to bother with Frodo vs. Bilbo.) Sam and the Gaffer seem quite different from each other, but both love the Shire and aren't so far from the average hobbit.

In what sense does Tolkien's writing style fit (or not fit) the content of the chapter (the depiction of Hobbiton, the party and Bilbo's leaving)?
It's very Hobbit-y, compared to what we've seen already ("Concerning Hobbits"). It fit the lighthearted, cheerful atmosphere of the party and the Hobbiton, making a reader smile instead of thinking "Okay! Get on with the adventure and stuff already!"
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