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Lindir
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 04, 2005 05:25
I have now seen, as I bought the film the other day. Damn good, the lot of it. But this scene in particular? What a piece of ****! I thought the speech was disjointed and - dare I say - stupid. As for the whole speaking with at a normal tempo up a tower as high as Orthanc, that was ridiculous. But the thing that really rattles my cage was Legolas shooting Grima. That has to be the worst moment in the history of the trilogy. I mean why? Where was the real sense in it? There was none. Figwit is right: with Legolas being such an aged Elf, his levels of wisdom and reasoning aught to be higher than that. Grima was, after all, going to go over to the 'light side'. So he stabbed Saruman. Whoop-de-****ing-day! Who cares? It was certainly no reason to stick an arrow in dear ol' Grimbo. Stupid, and seriously out of character - Legolas now looks like a cold-hearted murderer. Fantastic. :nono: Oh well, I shall just keep living in my bubble and pretend it never happened. *hums to herself*

Lindir
I prefer the theatrical edition
0% (0)
I prefer the EE because it finishes Saruman's story
45% (2)
I prefer the EE because it has the confrontation with Théoden
24% (1)
I prefer the EE because of Gríma's rebellion
10% (5)
I prefer the EE because of Saruman's death
4% (2)
I wanted to see this part, but PJ ruined it
18% (9)
Milliecake
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 04, 2005 10:19
I'm glad they added this scene, though it seemed a little stilted in places. Treebeard's line about the filth of Saruman washing away, seemed far more appropriate in the theatrical release, a little too cold hearted after the maia's murder in the extended edition. And I agree that more should have been made of Saruman's death as it was in the book. Very poignant that he was turned away from the West.

As for Legolas shooting Grima, I don't see it as out of character or unworthy of him. Grima commits a shocking act of murder when he stabs Saruman in the back and to me it seemed Legolas was simply reacting to that, a lethal response to what he might perceive a despicable and cowardly act.

Just my two pence worth
_LadyEowyn_
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 08, 2005 10:37
Did you like the scene as it turned out?
Yes. I am glad PJ put it in the extended edition, it turned out to be a very powerful scene. I loved Theoden's lines. It's the beginning of him showing a stronger character after the Battle of Helm's Deep.

Did you appreciate the way PJ chose to kill off Saruman and Gríma?
I love the idea of Saruman dying on the machinary that he created, Merry's face!

What would you have changed?
I would have liked the bit about Saruman in the book when he was turned away from the west, but I think it's a very poignant image, the wheel turning and washing Saruman away, in a sense.
CrazyInsaneJess
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 09, 2005 03:32
Ah, yes... I was looking forward to this scene the most.
I prefer it becuase it shows Grima's revenge... I'm glad that people have gotten to see that he was angry with Saruman in the long run.
As for the actual death... Saruman falling on the spiked wheel and Legolas shooting Grima... Eh, I dunno, I think that could have been done better and could have been more original...
GrimaWormtongue
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 11, 2005 01:35
I did like Grima's rebellion, until that Elf killed him - why people? Why? Why did Legolas have to kill Grima? I don't get it!
Peter Jackson *did* ruin it though. It would have been so much better if he'd have stuck to the Scouring Of The Shire!
Springie
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 12, 2005 12:04
Just wanted to give my 2 cents on the scene and on some of the thing said here.

Overall, I liked the Voice of Saruman. True, I was expecting more power of his actual Voice, but... well... it's a movie, you know.
I voted for Theoden and in my opinion that was the best piece in the scene. It certainly explained Theoden's words at the feast. I actually thought for a moment that he meant it when he said "We shall have peace"... Brrr... Bernard Hill was absolutely amazing. :heart:
As for the Legolas-shooting-Grima thingy... Um, I don't have anything against Leggy - I really like him in the books, but... Can't you see that in the movies he was not really that bright? What he did was - state the obvious and do some stunt. That's not Legolas. In the movies he tries to appear more than he really is and it fails. I mean, he's such a joyous elf in the books, almost like a kid at times. I think, that the screenwriters are at fault here. Orlando Bloom did a good job of what he had, but...

Now, for some things that were said.
*Appendices Spoilers Ahead!!!*

In one of the additional features they tell about the filming of that scene. And Ian McKellen says that when Lee was acting, they read Gandalf's and Theoden's lines for him. Lee was actually several feet away from them (you really didn't think he was all the way up there, did you? ). And then McKellen says that he had absolutely no idea that Saruman was going to be THAT high up. That is why he spoke in a normal voice and the same goes for Theoden (Bernard Hill), I think.

Grima... In the Appendices you have Lee telling you about him. Lee quotes Dourif: "You made me do it". That is, IMHO, one of the most amazing things one actor can do to another!

Oh, and PJ does explain the Saruman-on-a-spike thing, as you probably know.

Figwit, yes, Legolas does deserve better. Not just the stunts. I think there's a moment in the Appendices where PJ says something along the lines of 'let's allow Legsy to do something'... Ugh...
MirkwoodsArcher
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 12, 2005 02:26
Great scene, the fireball was really cool and Grima had it coming ( brilliant shot it was too )
Bernard Hill was particularly brilliant in it
wizenedwizard
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 12, 2005 04:52
i agree with all who have said that something was not right with legolas killing grima,,but it is true that saruman was to be the source of information,,and by killing grima legolas was trying to save saruman so that he could be of some use.
what i ultimately would have liked is for the scouring of the shire to occur in the movies as it did in the books,so that we could have seen the shire in a state of oppression.that would have been stirring stuff.but i liked the confrontation between gandalf and saruman,the firebolt was cool and the shattering of saruman's staff was too.it showed ganalf's superiority,,but i agree that there was not enough time for saruman's voice to work its magic.
Child_of_Lúthien
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 13, 2005 08:20
Did you like the scene as it turned out?
Yeah, I liked how the scene turned out. It was complete.

How did you like the confrontation between Gandalf and Saruman?
I thought is was very well done. I especially like the part where Gandalf breaks Saruman's staff.

Did you appreciate the way PJ chose to kill off Saruman and Gríma?
Well, it was good for the circumstances, I think. Of course it would've been nicer to have things more similar to the books, but it wouldn't have worked that way movie wise, so I think it was good.

What would you have changed?
I wouldn't have changed anything, myself. I thought it was fine as it was.
Vanalonde
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: January 20, 2005 05:01
Saruman's Death sequence...a surprise if not anything else...

I liked bits of it, as most everyone else has said, I like Theoden's dialogue most. His pride was apparent, but so was his vulnerability and his mercy. He sympathized deeply with Grima and therefore was much more willing to forgive him than the average Rohirrim would have been.

However, the one thing that really gets me about this scene was the fireball. I see I am not alone on this issue, but I have not read all of your comments yet, so if I end up agreeing with everything everyone said I apologize. It seemed...below him? If he was truly as he is in the book, than this method of extermination would be unavailable to him, but his voice always was his voice, and it would be yet in this scene.

Sorry if I am just being repetitive.
crystalarwen
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Post RE: ROTK EE Sequence by Sequence #1: The Voice of Saruman
on: September 13, 2009 03:38
I voted that PJ ruined it. Don't misunderstand me, I liked watching this scene and finding out what really happened; but I did not like how Saruman and Wormtongue both died at the same time. And then it gave me the creeps when Saruman fell off the tower and landed on the spike. *shudder* Seeing Theoden confront Saruman was pretty cool though.
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