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pv
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Post Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 12, 2005 03:55
This thread is for fanfiction readers and the fan fiction admins to write about what irritates/bugs them most in the fanfiction they read.

It would be educational for fan fiction writers to read about these things, and it would hopefully help them to improve their writing.

But I think we ought to be careful not to mention specific fan fiction stories by name as we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. (I'm not being nice, I'm just protecting myself! )

[Edited on 13/3/2005 by pv]
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EllaBeth
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 12, 2005 10:02
What bugs me most? Oh dear....you asked! *begins complaining in whiney voice*

1) Umm, spelling sometimes annoys me. Slight errors on words aren't that bad, 'cause I'm a horrible speller and don't notice half the time. But it really puts my knickers in a twist (not physically) when teh spileng gtets lke tihs. Erg!

2) Heroines' with any name that is longer than four syllables!
ex: Lwynneadryacosseawen :nono:

3) When the characters are so out of character that I feel I am reading something else entirely. A little artistic license is cool, but when our beloved characters become unrecognizeable, it hurts! :twitch:

In spite of all of this, I am still hopelessly addicted to fan fiction :blush: and read loads of it every chance I get!!!
EllaBeth
purplefluffychainsaw
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 01:17
Really long ANs! Excepting replies to reviews. Oh, and when an author copies the whole of a common song into the text of a story. If you have to have that special song in (why is it in the canon, though? Huh? Huh?) then what's wrong with just a few lines, or even just what the song is...

Sometimes I wonder why I still read FF. And then I realise that there are some gems out there that I can't even imagine not having read... Pity it's one to a hundred, or some equally silly ratio, good fics to 'Sues. *sigh*
Faramirs_first_kiss
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 02:09
1) Gross spelling and grammar mistakes. Yeah, nobody's perfect and we all get it wrong sometimes, but when every other word is so badly misspelled you can hardly recognise it, or there isn't a single speechmark in the entire FF, there's just no way you can enjoy reading it.

2) Ignoring canon. There are some really well-written AUs out there, and those are just fine, but when characters/events/facts are way off what they're intended to be it just seems like the author hasn't put any effort in, and so I don't put the effort in to read any further.

3) Inoriginality. This often means Mary-Sue has a starring role, though not always. If the writer's going to use the same ol' same ol' story, they've got to be a mighty good writer to keep my attention.

4) Those heroines' names again. If they're long, unpronounceable or can be shortened to a real-world name (usually the author's): 'My name's Sarentilwythema, but everyone calls me Emma'

*hisses* I usually only read fanfic on the reccommendation of someone whose judgement I trust.
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 03:55
This is great stuff - tell us more!

Just as Mary Sues are often found in the Romance genre, are there any stock characters that turn up in other genres? My friend Kazbels observed once that the Effeminate Legolas often turns up in the Humour genre.

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EldarChild
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 07:35
1) Spelling errors, like everyone else these bug me when no effort is made to even spell things correctly

2) Adding members to the fellowship. It's one thing to give Elrond extra daughters but DON'T have them join the mission/quest/thingie, pleeeeze!

3) Fics that completely ignore basic plot devices and leave you wondering what in Mordor just happened.

Eh, think that's it. I've seen LOTR characters completely cross genres too. Ie: Aragorn or Legolas showing up in Robin Hood or King Arthur...or *shudder* Hogwarts.
Meltintalle
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 09:52
Hopefully all those spelling stuff isn't aimed at the CoE staff...
(It bothers me too, but, cough, my vocabulary has always been (and always will be) better than my orthography so I must be quiet)

Anyway, I think what bugs me most is when there actually is a good teaser, and all you get is four paragraphs (I hyperbolise for effect, yes) of writing that doesn't even seem to pertain to the advertised story...

Short chapters bug me in general, but I know not everybody reads 100 pg books in an hour and looks for more.



[Edited on 13/3/2005 by Meltintalle]
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 02:40
"Igoring basic plot devices" - do you mean that there isn't a conflict and a resolution?
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Faramirs_first_kiss
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 09:48
Sometimes there just isn't anything even vaguely resembling a coherent plot, actions don't follow other actions logically but nobody in the story seems to notice.
LotrLuva
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 13, 2005 11:21
Well, it always annoyed me when stories have huge plot holes in them, and I don't like seeing too many spelling mistakes, but that's about it.
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 12:59
Sometimes I notice that writers don't consistently stick to the same style of writing.

These are writers who move from a Tolkienesque archaic style to very modern language and back again, within the same story.

So your heroic Legolas might first say
"Fie on thee, foul villain,"
and then take a breath and say
"Buzz off, you slimeball,"
and then go on to say
"Oh that this too too solid flesh would melt, etc."

[Edited on 14/3/2005 by pv]
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purplefluffychainsaw
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 07:02
2) Adding members to the fellowship. It's one thing to give Elrond extra daughters but DON'T have them join the mission/quest/thingie, pleeeeze!


"You shall count to nine, nine is the number of your counting. You shall not count to ten, nor to eleven. Nine is the number of the Fellowship."

**Snicker** I couldn't resist, mate.
Aerhíril
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 07:28
Mary Sues and God modding is the most annoying thing that can happen in a thread. I find it disappointing when there is one character who is 'stronger than anything that has ever lived', it spoils all the fun and irritates the hell out of me. Lol. Mostly they are a Maia or something, or even something less obvious than that... but you all know what Mary Sues are. A few are OK, but most are a pain. Oh no, I hope I don't have one... lol.

Oh yeah, bad grammar and spelling are annoying too (but only to the extent that it is impossible to read), as well as people who don't read other posts, and who ignore the fact that a character is somewhere else to where they are, and then the posts don't connect... just... OK... I think I will stop ranting now.
kazbels
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 12:45
Ah, PV, what a can of worms you've opened here!

What bugs me about FanFic?

1. Poor spelling and atrocious grammar are number 1 on my list. As has already been said, an occasional misspelled word is one thing, but when at least one word in every sentence is wrong - aaarrgh! Even worse, when the writer uses the wrong homonym (to, too, two, etc).

2. Unimaginative plots. How many times must Mary Sue join the Fellowship and save the day? Or Aragorn and/or Legolas be tortured?

3. Not being faithful to canon. I like AU stories, but try to stay faithful to Tolkien's universe, please! For example, no one in ME, except maybe Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan knew Gandalf was a Maia, so stop having everyone think of him as such.

I've lost interest in most fanfic lately. I have a few stories and authors that I faithfully read but have found too many stories lacking. Honestly, a little reading of Tolkien will show there is plenty of room to develop a story that will be unique and yet stay true to his universe.
EldarChild
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 03:14
Sometimes there just isn't anything even vaguely resembling a coherent plot, actions don't follow other actions logically but nobody in the story seems to notice.


Thank-you, that is exactly what I meant with that statement. Too many times there have been huge gaps/characters just 'appearing' from no-where and just general confusion with the story seeming to continue anyway

"You shall count to nine, nine is the number of your counting. You shall not count to ten, nor to eleven. Nine is the number of the Fellowship."

**Snicker** I couldn't resist, mate.


Well said purplefluffychainsaw, well said!

-EldarChild
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 05:05
actions don't follow other actions logically but nobody in the story seems to notice


Sometimes, the characters' reactions don't follow the action logically, either.
I have an example, but it's not from fan fiction.

After he has just won Wimbledon for the first time, interviewer Sue Barker asks Roger Federer a seemingly innocuous question about fan support from Switzerland...
Sue Barker : You've had so much support from home - what's your message to them?
Roger Federer : (Bursts into tears).



[Edited on 15/3/2005 by pv]
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EllaBeth
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 05:26
Lol pv!
:sob: <---roger
Yes that bugs me too. It also irritates me when the main female character (if there is a main female character) jumps into the sack (or the closet, as the case may be) to make free with some elf as soon as she can. It is usually Legolas, poor prince.
Now, if there is actually a plot and maybe a chapter or two between meeting the poor elf and jumping in the sack, then I don't mind so much. But it MUST have a believable or intriguing plot! *grumble grumble*
EllaBeth
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 05:57
I'm going to take a break from the main discussion to express my appreciation of the fine sense of humour of all those who have posted here.

Some of my favourites:

Heroines' with any name that is longer than four syllables!
ex: Lwynneadryacosseawen (by EllaBeth)

'My name's Sarentilwythema, but everyone calls me Emma' (by Faramirs_first_kiss)

"You shall count to nine, nine is the number of your counting. You shall not count to ten, nor to eleven. Nine is the number of the Fellowship." (by purplefluffychainsaw)


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pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 06:18
And now, back to the discussion.



A lot of you have said that you don't like it when Tolkien's characters are changed a lot and made unrecognisable.

But some authors stick so closely to Tolkien's characters and plot that there is very little original thought in their work.

So writers need to take care to avoid both extremes. As Kazbels rightly said, "there is plenty of room to develop a story that will be unique and yet stay true to Tolkien's universe."

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Faramirs_first_kiss
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 14, 2005 09:58
I think the best way to avoid mucking up the characters is to largely avoid them, and when your chars do meet them, to treat them with the respect and even fear they should engender in others. From Rivendell to Rohan, the Fellowship are in pretty much complete isolation (minus Lothlorien), so don't have the characters in the story stumble upon them. Equally, once they get to Rohan, they're going to be treated with the utmost suspicion: the Rohirrim fear and, because of that, hate elves. It's one of those things that has been drilled into them since birth, and you can't just say 'but she was wiser than the rest of her people, and she didn't think it was fair or right to think of elves like this' unless she'd met and spent a fair bit of time around elves, which wouldn't have happened (unless the character is a Mary-Sue). That'd be approximately equal in modern society to someone who has never experienced the disease saying 'but she was wiser than the rest of her people, and she didn't think it was fair or right to think of cancer like this'.
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 15, 2005 07:17
Oooh! I'd best make this clear before I get beaten to death by Miss Cam... The Fellowship mantra belongs to Miss Sandman and the lovely OFUM... http://www.misssandman.com/LOTR/ofum.html. And Elrond, of course.
Meltintalle
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 15, 2005 10:22
I think the best way to avoid mucking up the characters is to largely avoid them, and when your chars do meet them, to treat them with the respect and even fear they should engender in others.


Very true. Suspicion and dislike should be considered as well. However, I think most casual readers are interested in having their favourite character play a visible role in the story... which means working together in some fashion...
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 15, 2005 04:42
You're right, Meltintalle, readers do like to see familiar characters presented in a familiar way. It's true that Legolas might seem frightening to the Rohirrim, but if you tell his fangirls that, you do so at your own risk!

But it's also true that fan fiction writers have their limitations, and their versions of known characters might turn out to be unintentionally insulting to Tolkien!

A good solution to the problem is to take some of Tolkien's lesser known characters and make them the main characters in your story.
(As Meltintalle has written about Aranarth, Earnur and Glorfindel.)




[Edited on 16/3/2005 by pv]
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EllaBeth
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 15, 2005 06:22
I agree. Sometimes it is really hard to walk the line between what a character IS and being original.
If the story is well written, I don't mind if the author strays over that line. I've even enjoyed some AU stories (Alternate Universe) because they were excellently written. *gasp!* Yes, I know. Shocking!
I also like reading about the characters we don't know much about, or that Tolkien doesn't mention often.
-EllaBeth
Meltintalle
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 16, 2005 08:49
A good solution to the problem is to take some of Tolkien's lesser known characters and make them the main characters in your story.
(As Meltintalle has written about Aranarth, Earnur and Glorfindel.)


*curtseys* I do what I can.

Oooh. That reminds me, if you're going to write a story, a little research goes a long way. Id est If you've never picked up a bow, you have a very small likelyhood of making the bullseye. If you've never ridden a horse, you're not going to wow people with your centaurlike skills. (In fact, the first time the horse trots, you are going to feel like you're going to fall off.) If you've never run a mile, you're not going to make it. You'll collapse after the first couple yards. Mirkwood is not a couple days journey from Rivendell. Neither is Gondor. Fornost is north of Bree, and after it was destroyed, people avoided it. The list could probably go on and on...

On the other hand, showing off every bit of your acquired knowledge is equally annoying.
Ireth_Telrunya
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 19, 2005 09:51
2) Adding members to the fellowship. It's one thing to give Elrond extra daughters but DON'T have them join the mission/quest/thingie, pleeeeze!

Wait a sec..... does that mean one shouldn't add Elrond and all 3 of his children (Arwen and the twins) to the Fellowship? Because that's exactly what I did in my fic, The Ring-Keeper's Quest... I'm such a bad girl..... :sob:
Far over the Misty Mountains cold, to dungeons deep and caverns old. We must away ere break of day, to claim our long forgotten gold.
Andreth_Laiqualasse
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 19, 2005 03:08
Oh my...I agree with many of the things being said here.

1. I'm so sorry Ireth...but I don't believe in adding members to the Fellowship either. Forgive me.
2. Of course, making Tolkien's beloved characters unrecognizable hurts. I think what is needed to fix this is plenty of research, HOME books, and reading and rereading the books a billion times.
3. Unsympathetic characters. I guess that this is the Mary Sue problem, when you get the feeling that the author is just trying to exhalt himself through his character, giving him/her all sorts of powers, beauty, and making her favorite Tolkien character fall in love with her.
lilpippin
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 26, 2005 03:48
As a new fanfiction author I have a few pet peeves myself about fanfiction.

1) Actually pertains to reviewers. What is the point in reading the story, and then not saying anything. If you really don't like the story simply say why so the writing can improve. I became an author so I could improve my writing but it doesn't help when no one says anything.

2)Spelling/ grammar mistakes. But you have to remember that some writers are using English when it is their second language.

3) Seriously out-of-canon stuff.

4) Ideas that so blatantly came from some one else. Such as the Leggy/Aragorn torture fics and the like.

5) mary sues, i just don't like them at all.

6) Romances that weren't in the book. I can't stand stories based on the fact that Legolas is in love. (or others...)

A good solution to the problem is to take some of Tolkien's lesser known characters and make them the main characters in your story.


Thats really good advise. There really isn't enough Glorfindel and twin fics out there. *hint, hint*

... if you're going to write a story, a little research goes a long way.


More good advise. Make sure that you know what you are talking about!
j_mercuryuk
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 26, 2005 01:06
most of the ones mentioned i don't like, but i'd like to add one i can't stand:
male pregnacy fic! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!
pv
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 26, 2005 05:35
Actually pertains to reviewers. What is the point in reading the story, and then not saying anything. If you really don't like the story simply say why so the writing can improve. I became an author so I could improve my writing but it doesn't help when no one says anything.


I agree with you! On this site, "flaming is not allowed," but critical reviews are very helpful to writers who want to improve their skills. That's the reason why I started this discussion... because I really wanted to know what people dislike about fan fiction.
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LinweSingollo
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: March 29, 2005 04:08
I agree with most of the gripes already listed. Here's another: using modern slang/idioms. For example: (samples I've actually come across in my reading):

"Man, I'm really spaced!" exclaimed Legolas.
"Cool," said Frodo.
"Yeah, awesome!" agreed Pippin.
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
j_mercuryuk
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: April 02, 2005 10:41
thats one i hate.
some things you can get away with but when they start sounding like modern teenagers.....(e.g Arwen: i don't know if i should go out with aragorn),.
i hate it.
Ireth_Telrunya
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: April 03, 2005 12:36
One word: slash. Icky, icky, icky. Especially between elves. I have seen at least 6 fanfics with Elrond/Glorfindel stuff, and a few with Glorfindel/Erestor stuff. I never thought of elves as the type to have those kinds of relationships. I mean, Elrond is MARRIED!!! And getting all smoochy-smoochy with Glorfindel!! How nasty is that??? If Celebrian ever found out, oooh boy... :angry: :evil:

[Edited on 3/4/2005 by Ireth_Telrunya]
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Meltintalle
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: April 03, 2005 12:51
Out of morbid curiosity, why especially between elves?

Nasty. In any context. Period.
LinweSingollo
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Post RE: Things that BUG me about fan fiction...
on: April 03, 2005 04:50
I find slash deeply depressing. And all those odd couplings: Frodo/Theoden, Gollum/Sam, Sauron/with anybody....I just have to wonder about some people out there.
"To the Hobbits. May they outlast the Sarumans and see spring again in the trees." J.R.R. Tolkien
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